Two Plus Two Newer Archives - How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

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- - How it can be? what i am doing wrong? (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=496384)

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

I agree we want to get all-in with the best hand, the myth part comes from saying that if you achieve that, then that consequently proves you've done nothing wrong. The logic is flawed.

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

Hello
Please i need help
im playing on nl10. i started with $210, now im with $150.
I've already read SuperSystem,GreenBook, Theory of Poker.
i'm playing in a conservative mode, i belive.
on Ep only big cards(AA,KK,QQ,Ak,AKs), on Mp(AQ,AQs,AJs),on Lp (JTo+) and with 22-TT, limp and call, On buttom im trying to steal the pot fast. im making the right bet ammount.
i mean...i belive im doing right. i realy want to improve.
and every time i play i lose. some bad beats. and sometimes, lose to a lucky river.lose sucks you know.i bluff one or 2 times and for exemple: when i have QQ and someone call my openraise and the flop comes: x,A/K,x , and they bet or i bet and they raise, i fold it. sometimes i catch a QKs for exemple, and them the flop comes and i got a flushdraw, i try to keep in the pot at last to the turn.
i dont know what to do, proaly im making a lot of mistakes because if not, i would not lose a lot of Buyin.
Please someone say something, i have a friend who's helping me but hes on a vacation right now, i did 2 video of me playing and showed him, he said im making a lot of mistakes and many of them i had corect.
actualy im tilted, but i rest and them when i play a lose again, i know im not tilted in that time, but ....
god it's sux. please someone say something.
im Felipe from Brazil, sorry for english mistakes

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

1. If tilting, sit in a smaller game
2. Play
3. Go To 1

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

Not really much anyone can suggest without seeing some hands you have played. Sounds like you have an idea what to do pre-flop. You probably need to work on your play after the flop. Post your video on the microstakes NL forum if you want feedback, or at least post some hands there.

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

poker is a very swingy game, even very good players can go long streches breakeven,

i'm not very good but i am reasonable,
last month i was minus 6K at one stage playing 200nl and 400nl still finished +3K and +3K for rakeback, month before had a breakeven strech of 25000 hands finished +14K including the rakeback.

keep a notebook beside your computer,
when your playing make a note of any hands where you feel lost, post them in the proper forum for that game/limit

post replies to other people hands, trying posting what you would do before you read all the replies.

maybe look at geting some to coach/ sweat you,

get pokertracker or similar and hud software.

keep trying to learn.

good luck at the tables [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

[ QUOTE ]
>>>>If you get all your chips in with the best hand, then you are doing nothing wrong.

I disagree. This is one of the biggest myths in poker. It's possible to get all your chips in with the best hand by being very lucky, that doesn't mean the play was a good play. For example you have nine high only, no draws, come out bluffing on the flop and someone raises you all in with nothing but an eight high flush draw. By calling, you'd be getting all your chips in with the best hand, but IMO this call would be very bad play indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not possible to consistently get all you chips in as an accidental favorite. If you consistently mis-read your opponents' hand ranges, then you will more often than not get your money in as a dog.

Furthermore, in the examples given by the OP, he feels like he is making consistent, correct decisions, but getting out drawn or out flopped where villain didn't have good implied odds to out flop him.

So, when I said, "If you get all your chips in with the best hand, then you are doing nothing wrong," perhaps I should have said, "If you consistently make +EV decisions, then you will eventually make money." I was assuming that if he regularly gets his money in with the best of it that it is because he is making +EV decisions rather than getting consistently and regularly lucky.

Variance, however, will nevertheless cause him to have some downswings along the way. Sometimes large downswings.

And as for your example, it would be a mistake according to the Fundamental Theorem of Poker to fold the 9-high if 9-high had a +EV vs villain's actual holding. You're assumption in your example is that you would put villain on a range of hands that makes calling with 9-high -EV. That would probably be a correct assumption in most scenarios. However, it is still a "mistake" to fold a +EV hand, even if it's not the best hand. And in this case, it would be a mistake to fold your hand if only you could deduce that calling with 9-high was in fact +EV given villain's mannerisms, pre- and post-flop play, as well as his betting sizes relative to the pot. Certainly if you could see his hand face up and calculate EV before calling then you would call 100% of the time because it would be +EV to do so.

However, in your example, 9-high is not the "best" hand if all the money goes in on the flop.

Board: Kh Qh As
Hand 0: 59.747% ( 5h4h }
Hand 1: 40.253%{ 9c8c }

In this case, 9-high is the worst hand on the flop if all the money goes in because it is 3:2 to lose. Therefore a call would be -EV, and he should fold 9-high even if villain turned his cards face up.

So, by "best hand when the money goes in" I'm talking about equity not about who has the absolute best hand at the moment. With 2 cards to come, for example, an open ended straight flush draw is actually a "better" hand than aces without the flush suit if all the money goes in on the flop.

Board: 5h 6h Kd
Hand 0: 56.263% { 4h3h }
Hand 1: 43.737% { AcAs }

So, in this case, if the guy with "4-high" gets all in on this flop vs aces every single tmie, then the 4-high will win money over the long run, and the aces will lose money unless the pot is so big that the overlay in the pot makes it +EV for aces to call despite having the worst hand. In that case, as is often the case, it would be correct (+EV) to call with the worst hand if the overlay in the pot makes it +EV to do so (i.e. if the aces are about a 3:2 (1.5:1) dog, but the pot is offering 2:1 pot odds, then a call would be +EV, and therefore, "correct").

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

[ QUOTE ]
poker is a very swingy game, even very good players can go long streches breakeven,

i'm not very good but i am reasonable,
last month i was minus 6K at one stage playing 200nl and 400nl still finished +3K and +3K for rakeback, month before had a breakeven strech of 25000 hands finished +14K including the rakeback.

keep a notebook beside your computer,
when your playing make a note of any hands where you feel lost, post them in the proper forum for that game/limit

post replies to other people hands, trying posting what you would do before you read all the replies.

maybe look at geting some to coach/ sweat you,

get pokertracker or similar and hud software.

keep trying to learn.

good luck at the tables [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

ur right, i gonna start to posto some hands that i fell lost.
today i won 3 buyin, i fell im on the right way, not just because i won, but by now i can play 4 tables at a time, and don't fell lost.
see u guys soon

Re: How it can be? what i am doing wrong?

That's an impressive analysis Albert. I just think that there are many situations which are both (1) most +EV for Hero when all the money is in, but that (2) in order for Hero to get all his money in would require bad play.