Re: flopped a pair+fd
 

I was wondering about these spots for awhile and I agree with pushing here and going for ur stack rather than making a pot sized reraise.

1) I think vs the minraise u have definite fold equity, hes not committed yet and its atleast a bit odd for him to raise the min here and the only good hands he can have he wouldnt 3bet pre are QJ and TT which are the only ones likely to call your shove since they ll put u on atleast AK. Obviously I feel better if I have the info villan min raises and folds a wide range of hands but I think its correct even without that read.

I think betting the stack gets u more fold equity than a pot sized raise, even though villan should recognize ur usually committing urself even with that sized bet, but they often dont cuz people suck at poker or look for excuses to call. This is a spot I lack balance as Im more likely to push with a big draw and make a pot sized reraise with sets or the nuts or call and cr the turn, but I dont think people catch on to stuff like that really quickly and there are so many players u dont see the same faces enough at the lower limits to be concerned with that I dont think (unless u have a reason to think like that vs a certain villain).

I think the other reason to push now besides ur equity and fold equity is just 3betting now less than ur stack is so awkward for the turn and just calling sucks too as people stack off way less when u hit one of ur outs so preserving implied odds particularly with a fd isnt always the best idea since the opportunity cost of not using your fold equity and getting to see two cards (as he can shove and not give u odds to hit on the turn) are more valuable in this situation IMO, as people check behind alot when the flush hits or fold to ur turn cr unless they have a redraw boat outs or like AxQc or AxJc (OESDS i tend to not mind preserving implied odds a bit more tho vs many villains if I tihnk I have a lot of fold equity I still push early).


what u guys think of what I think?

Re: flopped a pair+fd
 

A related spot I had yesterday (approximate since I don't have HH on this computer)

NL200, villain has 100bb, I cover. Folded to SLAG (30/20ish) who opens in CO for 8.

I call in BB with QsJs. Flop comes J7s5s.

I bet 12, he min raises, I shove.

Re: flopped a pair+fd
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's something I wrote a while ago about determining how much FE you need to push a draw profitably. It seemed to confuse more people than it helped, but hey it's all I got. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (linky)



[/ QUOTE ]

Grunch, between this and your post in the "where does the $ come from thread" all I can is coach me please...

Re: flopped a pair+fd
 

LOL you must have missed my post where I explained that I went almost broke in May. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: flopped a pair+fd
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet all-in on the turn, you're offering the opponent 3:1 to call which he certainly will do, and be correct in doing so. Which means you'll be making a -EV bet most of the time on the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wait. Are you claiming that if your opponent has the right price to call, then it is a -EV bet?

Also, why do people seem to think that potting it or jamming are the only viable raise sizes? Why is raising to about 35 and leaving about a pot-sized bet behind not an option?