Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

At Harrah's AC, a tourney table tried to botch it. Blinds of 300/600, player says raise and thows out a 1000 and next player calls. I say "It has to be 1200." First they fix it, then say "No, we can go to 900 because the big blind is a raise of 300 on the small blind." They convince the dealer! I'd already folded UTG (so I don't know if this makes me a dick), but when the dealer asked if I wanted to call the floor to confirm, I said yes, and the floor said it had to be 1200. Then other side of the table, they thought the next raise had to double it again to 2400.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

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At Harrah's AC, a tourney table tried to botch it. Blinds of 300/600, player says raise and thows out a 1000 and next player calls. I say "It has to be 1200." First they fix it, then say "No, we can go to 900 because the big blind is a raise of 300 on the small blind." They convince the dealer! I'd already folded UTG (so I don't know if this makes me a dick), but when the dealer asked if I wanted to call the floor to confirm, I said yes, and the floor said it had to be 1200. Then other side of the table, they thought the next raise had to double it again to 2400.

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Nice- they went 0-2 on that other side.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

You seem to have forgotten the rule that trumps all others:

Rule Zero - When playing in someone else's game, play by their rules.

Why not get a big flashing neon sign on your forehead that says: "Hello, I take this game more seriously than you do. I will be less fun to play with and more likely to take your money." Well, okay, that might take up too much space, so how about a scrolling LED marquee?

Basically, who cares. Poker is a game of information, and you have this opportunity to find out a whole lot of information for cheaper than you're used to. These people all know each other. They know on some instinctual level at the very least what certain less-than-min raises mean from certain people. Watch how they react to these. Adjust. Profit.

Me, I like to keep people in their comfort zones. If they're jarred out of them, they pay attention more and play better.

Now, if you end up joining this game as a regular, then you can occasionally find a good spot here and there to mention the rules on raising. But again, remember that Robert's is simply that: Robert's. It's not on stone tablets or anything.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

Hi guys & gals [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Frommagio:
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When in Rome, do as the Romans do! [...] Keep your eyes open, think about it, and exploit it. Remember to enjoy it, and viva la difference!

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This didn't cross my mind. (I still have much to learn. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]) Thanx for this advice!

pfapfap:
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Why not get a big flashing neon sign on your forehead that says: "Hello, I take this game more seriously than you do. I will be less fun to play with and more likely to take your money."

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You're absolutely right.

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Poker is a game of information, and you have this opportunity to find out a whole lot of information for cheaper than you're used to.

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True. This goes along with what frommagio suggested.

I thought about this whole thing the way a referee would do, and not the way a businessman/poker player would.

Thanks to all you guys who replied. It's always worth consulting the forums - they always provide different point of views; refreshing, instructive, and informative.

Thanx again. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

If they don't understand odds, etc, just make sure you fully understand their rules, and beat them in that context. shouldn't be too hard.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

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Continue to raise their bets by $1 or something ridiculously annoying until they comprehend why that rule is in place.

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The problem with allowing less than min raises to stand is not that they are annoying, but that they re-open the betting. For example, 3 players see the flop, first player bets moderate amount, second player raises by $1 - the third player is squeezed out by the second players $1 raise because he now faces a re-raise if he calls, and second player only had to risk the extra $1 to make this play. Of course, if you are playing with a bunch of donkeys you can probably take advantage of this more than they will.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

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The problem with allowing less than min raises to stand is not that they are annoying, but that they re-open the betting.

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You say "problem"; I say "opportunity to sit to the right of the most aggressive player in order to push against his wide range re-raises when this happens". Potato, potahto, I suppose. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Really, anything a donk does helps your edge once you figure out how to exploit it. I hope you're encouraging straddles, too.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

If they are that knowledgeable about poker, you should be taking all their money!

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

One of my home games has this rule. 30% of the players are decent and have an understanding of the fundamentals of the game. The other 70% are either newbies or believe that luck is really what allows them to win. At first I was always annoyed by anyone raising $1 into a $10 bet. However as time went on and I got a little better I realized that in reality these players are only hurting themselves. The good players at this game never(*) do this, because they know it really only hurts their long term EV. Granted sometimes it reopens the betting, but in reality for those 70% it does not matter.

(*) A few exceptions I have noticed
(1) When I have a MONSTER, I can "donk" around with these little "less than min raise bets", and get folks calling me or reraising my "less than min raise bets", when they would fold to a "real" bet or raise. Its a big laugh when someone does it, and almost no one folds!!!!
(2) I pay attention when one of those "good 30%" folks make one of the "less than min raise bets", and drop my hand fast. See (1).

Someone said something like "when in Rome ...." Hell yea. These folks are gong to drop their money to you. However you must play your "A" "ABC" game, because the variance will be high.

Re: how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?
 

I don't agree with those who are saying that the op should appreciate the donkness of these players. It'll mess up your game playing with these donks who will crack your aces one too many times with crap crap OS. You'll start pushing with mid pair, and it will transfer over to the "real" games.
Just tell 'em it's your house and house rules. If that isn't enough, tell 'em you want to play the right way. Print a few copies of Robert's Rules and give 'em to people to take home and read. As they, your group, play more and see more on TV, they will step their levels up. You may hear some gripes in the beginning, but later will appreciate the consistencies of following the rules.