Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

HAND #9

Okay I've very iffy about Ed's SS strategy when I'm the BB and have just called a marginal hand like this example. I won, but did I play it right? Critisism more than welcome.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $53.60
Dumb Fish x (BB): $12.30
UTG: $31.85
UTG+1: $11.00
MP1: $77.10
MP2: $21.40
CO: $61.40
BTN: $27.85

Preflop: Dumb Fish x is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to $1.50</font>, 5 folds, Dumb Fish x calls $1.00

Flop: ($3.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Dumb Fish x bets $4.00</font>, UTG+1 calls $4.00

Turn: ($11.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Dumb Fish x bets all-in for $6.80</font>, UTG+1 calls all-in for $5.50
Uncalled bet of $1.30 returned to Dumb Fish x

River: ($22.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $22.25 ($1.10 Rake)

UTG+1 had K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Kings) and LOST (-$11.00)
Dumb Fish x had 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Nines) and WON (+$10.15)

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

HAND #10 - <font color="blue">LOSS</font>

Another loss. Another hand in the BB where I didn't really know what to do. Help please. Edit: just realised I was UTG. No idea what I was thinking here. Seriously. Shoot me.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $26.15
BB: $21.15
Dumb Fish x (UTG): $10.20
MP: $54.00
CO: $19.95
BTN: $50.00

Preflop: Dumb Fish x is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
Dumb Fish x calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, BB checks

Flop: ($2.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1.50</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x raises to $5.50</font>, MP calls $5.50, BTN folds, SB calls $4.00

Turn: ($19) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets all-in for $20.15</font>, Dumb Fish x calls all-in for $4.20, MP calls $20.15

River: ($63.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $63.50 ($3 Rake)

MP had 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a full house, Nines full of Queens) and WON (+$34.35)
SB had Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Queens) and LOST (-$26.15)
Dumb Fish x had Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Queens) and LOST (-$10.20)

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

HAND #11 - WIN

Here I took a gamble and limped in with pocket 5's. Yes, I realise I am not supposed to do this. However, consider I have been raising then going-all in on this table a few times and people are starting to auto-fold.

I would still like critisism.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $93.15
BB: $71.45
UTG: $19.35
UTG+1: $72.60
Dumb Fish x (MP1): $11.65
MP2: $70.10
CO: $19.35
BTN: $16.50

Preflop: Dumb Fish x is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, Dumb Fish x calls $0.50, 4 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($1.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x raises to $5.50</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $3.75

Turn: ($12.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x bets all-in for $5.65</font>, UTG calls $5.65

River: ($24.05) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $24.05 ($1.20 Rake)

UTG had 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Queens) and LOST (-$11.65)
Dumb Fish x had 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Fives) and WON (+$11.20)

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

HAND #12 - WON

Okay, so due to the lucky win in hand #11, I'm not short stacked at this table anymore. In the previous wins I've just been getting up and moving to a new table, but I thought I'd stick around a bit.

Here I am playing a "conventional" round of poker. Advice?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $60.10
BB: $67.35
UTG: $18.85
UTG+1: $16.00
MP1: $71.95
MP2: $23.05
CO: $71.85
Dumb Fish x (BTN): $22.10

Preflop: Dumb Fish x is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 Players)
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, CO folds, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x raises to $3.50</font>, 2 folds, MP2 calls $3.00

Flop: ($7.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
MP2 checks, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x bets $12.00</font>, MP2 folds
Uncalled bet of $12.00 returned to Dumb Fish x

Pot Size: $7.75 ($0.35 Rake)

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

END OF SESSION

Results: Wow! I've broken my losing streak. Maybe the extra-strictness that posting all my (novice) playing put on my concience to "play right" really did pay off! Woohoo.

$23 up!

I hope to find lots of advice and critisism here when I get back! (pretty please!)

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

I think I would've pushed here just because it'd seem "standard" for you. Suddenly betting $12 seems REALLY suspicious. I think if you shoved, you'd be more likely to get called. Glad to hear today's going better! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Okay things are going down hill now...

The next 3 hands I have lost. (...it begins). Critisism wanted. Note that with the marginal hands I was the BB and got a free flop and flopped two pair both times to get beaten. These are the things that have made me a losing player with this strategy. This is how it usually goes...

Hand #6 I think I played poorly. Hands #7 and #8 demonstrate why I am seemingly always ending up losing in the long run.

HAND #6 - <font color="blue">LOSS</font> - Critisism Welcome.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $13.70
BB: $82.35
UTG: $16.70
UTG+1: $64.65
MP1: $47.20
MP2: $46.40
MP3: $55.85
Dumb Fish x (CO): $16.00
BTN: $20.75

Preflop: Dumb Fish x is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9 Players)
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 folds, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x raises to $3.50</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $3.25, 2 folds

Flop: ($8) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets all-in for $10.20</font>, Dumb Fish x calls $10.20

Turn: ($28.40) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($28.40) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $28.40 ($1.40 Rake)

SB had 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Sixes) and WON (+$13.30)
Dumb Fish x had 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sixes) and LOST (-$13.70)


HAND #7 - <font color="blue">LOSS</font>




I'm not too familiar with the ss strategy as i mainly play limit, but i think the strategy is to be the first to push...rather than calling all-ins. This board is too dangerous to call. if your opponent is holding a 6 or an A you have two outs. even if he doesnt, he still has plenty of outs if the A or any runner runner card higher than an 8 pairs. (as long as he has one card higher than an 8 as a kicker) because the board can counterfit you easily on this board your probably better off folding!.

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

HAND 6 - Meh. [censored] happens.

HAND 7 - What are you doing calling pre-flop? Either raise big or fold. You want to see the flop with both position and the initiative as the pre-flop raiser.

Once the flop came, you had him crushed when the money went in. He was drawing to 5 outs, only a 20% chance for him to suck out. He did. [censored] happens. You still made a mistake pre-flop, but SB would have called you even if you had raised.

HAND 9 - "Okay I've very iffy about Ed's SS strategy when I'm the BB..." That's because you need to be folding the BB most of the time, and that feels "weak." Well, it is weak, or rather it would be if you were playing deep stacks or if you were playing 6-max. But your not.

As far as how the hand played out, that call would be 100% wrong if you were playing deep stacks. Since you're short, in fact you're both short[/i], I'm gonna say that pre-flop the play is either shove or fold. I think it's 50/50 either way.

Remember, it's not if you win the pot or lose the pot, it's if you played correctly. Calling is almost always a mistake, raising is wrong much less often, folding is sometimes wrong, but when you're OOP usually not.

Hand 10 - Calling pre-flop is usually a mistake. Calling UTG when you have a short stack is always a mistake. Playing these cards in this position is definitely a mistake.

Pre-flop mistakes are expensive. When you're playing the SSS, they will almost always cost you your buy-in. Stick to the starting hands guidelines you posted in your first thread.

Hand 11 - So the players were auto-folding to your pre-flop raises, eh? And this made you sad for some reason?

When you're playing the short stack, you don't have the implied odds to play speculative hands. Period. Calling pre-flop in this spot is a mistake. It doesn't matter that you won the hand. Luck can fool you into thinking that your mistake was, in fact, a good play. Don't let luck fool you. Stick to hands that can make you top pair on the flop, not hands that will flop overcards eight times in nine.

Hand 12 - "due to the lucky win in hand #11, I'm not short stacked at this table anymore."

So take the money and run. Type "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and find another table.

The SSS doesn't work when your stack approaches medium deep. Remember how I keep saying NL is all about implied odds? When you play short, you are denying your opponents correct implied odds to play against you. Opponents have to fold to your bets and raises, because they don't stand to make enough money off you when they hit their hand to pay for all the times they miss.

BTW, this is the last time I (or anyone else) is going to respond to a whole list of hands. The rule of thumb on the strategy forums is to keep it at three hands a day or less.

You can move over to the FR NL forum whenever you like. They'll make fun of you mercilessly for playing the SSS. That's because the SSS is +EV, easy to play and nearly unexploitable.

When they do (not if, when) tell them to post strategy or go screw.

Deep stack NL players hate short stackers. I don't hate short stackers myself. I just hate the good ones. But they are few and far between because, very much unlike yourself, most of them never bother to join a poker forum and find out if they're playing it correctly. Most of them limp pre-flop, play hit-to-win poker and go broke. Then they curse Ed Miller for giving bad advice.

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

HAND #7 - <font color="blue">LOSS</font>

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $47.60
BB: $51.05
UTG: $23.70
UTG+1: $56.95
MP1: $44.00
MP2: $32.90
MP3: $31.95
Dumb Fish x (CO): $8.75
BTN: $42.70

Preflop: Dumb Fish x is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 folds, Dumb Fish x calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, BB checks

Flop: ($3) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red">Dumb Fish x bets all-in for $8.25</font>, 4 folds, MP2 calls $8.25

Turn: ($19.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($19.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $19.50 ($0.95 Rake)

MP2 had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Queens) and WON (+$9.80)
Dumb Fish x had K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (two pair, Kings and Queens) and LOST (-$8.75)


Limping pre-flop? with a short stack?

You should have raised preflop, and shoved on the flop. It wouldnt have made any difference to the result in this case (unless he were to fold) because of the second Q but you got the money in while you were ahead and put him under maximum pressure.

Re: Ed Miller\'s Short Hand Strategy on Full Tilt...
 

Hand 7, 9, 10 and 11 are awful. Either follow Ed Miller's shortstacking strategy or use your own random one.

But dont come on and criticize his stratgy when you arent following it as he tells you.