Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

Whether or not my ban was ridiculous, because Melchiades "doesn't seem like the kind of guy to lie"; claims "he was spammed by welcome2theparty"; and claims he "isn't even an affil", you broke two of the much discussed fundamental rules of being a moderator :-

you unbanned someone without discussing it first with the banning mod or Mat or Ryan;

and you also deleted Notes made by another mod.

You also took action on an account and didn't leave any Notes yourself. (Posts in the mods' forum do not take the place of Notes, because many current mods don't read all the posts here, and most future mods won't read all the existing posts here.)

At this point, I am in no way arguing the merits or otherwise of the ban I made. I may or may not have made a bad decision. It may or may not have been the worst ban decision of all time.

However, your actions leave a great deal to be desired, and your asking what is wrong with effecting the unbanning, for any reason, and your totally indifferent deletion of existing Mod Notes, rather than your adding to them, should be a serious concern to all.

If you had deleted a * "because he didn't seem like a guy who should have one", I can only imagine the irritation caused to the OOT mods.

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

i just cannot for the life of me see why there should be two sets of notes to document an incorrect banning and the subsequent reversal of that. it makes no sense whatsoever, and at this point i fail to see how you could disagree.

your argument basically seems to consist of 'it's a rule that you don't do that', but applying the rule in this case seems absurd.

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

[ QUOTE ]
if only someone were capable of giving me a reason why that actually matters!

[/ QUOTE ]

So I guess from this that your attitude is that it doesn't matter what the consensus of opinion among the mods is on any matter because you're going to go ahead and do your own thing in any case?

There's not really a lot of point in debating policy matters at all, is there?

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

MH,

Two points:

1) I agree with the gist of just about everything you've written and it all makes sense.

2) But when you write things like "a serious concern to all" about something like this, I feel like things are being taken way too seriously. I mean, Yeti made a decision that to him made logical sense (that Melch was likely incorrectly banned) and then took some actions that were probably a little rash and perhaps not too well thought out. At the very least he should have PM'd the banner and left a note about the status. And I agree that there's no emergency need to unban, no big deal if Melch has to wait a few hours. However, as I've said before, I think a lot of people around here get way too worked up about stuff that really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I think a lot of the stuff that gets posted in some of the forums that few people seem to worry about is a much more "serious concern to all" than any of this sort of crap.

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

[ QUOTE ]
i just cannot for the life of me see why there should be two sets of notes to document an incorrect banning and the subsequent reversal of that. it makes no sense whatsoever, and at this point i fail to see how you could disagree.

your argument basically seems to consist of 'it's a rule that you don't do that', but applying the rule in this case seems absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this juncture, I have no idea whether it was an unfair ban or not.

I thought it was a fair ban at the time, so I banned him.

You thought it was unfair, so you unbanned him without discussion.

If you think this is the way to mod, fair enough. We'll all just make our own decisions and the last one counts.

And we won't document our decisions in the Notes, for those who come behind.

In this case, if our Notes were there, and then in two months' time Melchiades is reported as spamming, whatever mod was dealing with the report would have the Notes to refer to.

With your way of no Notes, if the future mod is friends with the guy he can say to himself, "No previous history - he seems like a nice guy", = no action.

You don't see which is the better way for all mods, in general terms?

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

i didn't think the ban was 'unfair'. i was as close to certain as possible that it was DEAD WRONG. there is a huge difference there.

when a long-time strategy poster messages me saying 'dude wtf i have been banned for spamming, i am not even an affiliate, no clue what this is about, some dude pm'ed me party rb spam earlier today and now this happens', you can be pretty sure there has been misunderstanding.

i have no idea why you think i am against protocol in general. i just don't think it applies in this exact circumstance!

here's an example. lets say tonight i get drunk and permban anacardo and place in the notes 'FU ANACARDO YOU POST SUCH LONG RAMBLING EMO NONSENSE FU FU FU I HATE YOU'. you are saying that this should remain in the notes for eternity even after he is quickly unbanned? what sense does that even make? you might as well add into my notes that i won the egg and spoon race back in 91 because it holds about as much relevance.

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

agree with diablo that you are taking this way too seriously. if the positions were reversed, i would reply to this thread with

'heh, oops, guess i acted a bit quickly there. sorry, thanks for tidying up after me'

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

[ QUOTE ]
MH,

Two points:

1) I agree with the gist of just about everything you've written and it all makes sense.

2) But when you write things like "a serious concern to all" about something like this, I feel like things are being taken way too seriously. I mean, Yeti made a decision that to him made logical sense (that Melch was likely incorrectly banned) and then took some actions that were probably a little rash and perhaps not too well thought out. At the very least he should have PM'd the banner and left a note about the status. And I agree that there's no emergency need to unban, no big deal if Melch has to wait a few hours. However, as I've said before, I think a lot of people around here get way too worked up about stuff that really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I think a lot of the stuff that gets posted in some of the forums that few people seem to worry about is a much more "serious concern to all" than any of this sort of crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for your general confirmation of agreement.

It should be a serious concern to all that we have a mod who

1. does his own thing, whatever the debated and agreed procedures are

and then

2. asks what the big deal is that he didn't follow the debated and agreed procedures in some trivial case (if the guy isn't a spammer) or other.

As I believe you have said in another thread, (or two), you don't mind following the rules, whether or not you agree with them, as long as they are agreed and followed consistently.

This is why I am so uptight about this trivial case.

I don't know Melchiades from Adam, but I made a decision, good or bad, based on my interpretation of what was in front of me at the time, (and Yeti still doesn't know all of what was in front of me), and Yeti came along and broke all sorts of mod rules, actual or inferred, with complete and utter indifference to the house rules, which exist whether a subject situation is trivial or complex.

It wasn't many weeks ago that some of us (though not me on that occasion) were screaming that there should be new software added to track which mods were deleting Notes, because it was so irritating that some had "disappeared".

Maybe I and a few other mods do take our roles very seriously, perhaps too seriously? I will consider trying to change in this respect and follow Yeti's lead to simply do my own thing and not worry about what other mods have decided as procedures that should be followed, when I think the situation is unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

[ QUOTE ]
here's an example. lets say tonight i get drunk and permban anacardo and place in the notes 'FU ANACARDO YOU POST SUCH LONG RAMBLING EMO NONSENSE FU FU FU I HATE YOU'. you are saying that this should remain in the notes for eternity even after he is quickly unbanned?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats hilarious and gives me an idea. I think I'll go make some notes on some politics posters.

Re: FAO MH - re: Melchiades
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
here's an example. lets say tonight i get drunk and permban anacardo and place in the notes 'FU ANACARDO YOU POST SUCH LONG RAMBLING EMO NONSENSE FU FU FU I HATE YOU'. you are saying that this should remain in the notes for eternity even after he is quickly unbanned?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats hilarious and gives me an idea. I think I'll go make some notes on some politics posters.

[/ QUOTE ]

All,

Link

Regards,
--jman220