Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

You lost to QJ. Tough break. Next hand.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

[ QUOTE ]
"There is no way I could c/c the river and I don't think we should."

Given the way the villain played this hand, he most likely either has a passively played Qx, a pokect pair below Qx, or Ace high. If he somehow has just a naked ace like A4/A2 hes probaby gonna fold if we bet the river on that card. If he has a lower pocked pair like 66, he'll probably fold that also. Its very unlikely the villain has a worse Jx that will pay off since that means he would have to either call the flop with nothing or have JcXc and play very passively. For the same reason its very unlikely the villain has Tx. What Im getting at is very simple: Although the Jack on the river makes us a pair this card is a huge action killer for those times we do have the best hand becuz most lesser hands will now fold unless our opponent is an extreme showdown monkey. Obviously if the villain has a better hand than us, hes either calling or raising. So IMO, check/calling the river in this very spot will be the optimal line against most opponents. So I think you should change your opinion on the river play.

"Also if I'm honest with myself I don't think there is anyway I could b/f the river, but I think maybe we should."

I dont understand why this is a tough spot....This is an extremely easy fold once raised. Bet/calling is definitely a large money loser in this spot. This is a check/call or bet/fold situation, and based on the final board and the way this hand played out, Im convinced that check/calling will make/save more money than bet/folding. Since were unlikely to get value from betting, our best chance to make money on the river is to induce a hopeless bluff.

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I forgot we had the Jc in our hand so ignore the idea that the villain could possibly have a worse Jx hand with JcXc.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

I cant get my head around people calling this river raise.

That river is such an easy bet/fold.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

See! My instincts are good, but I suck at actually doing it...

lol.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

[ QUOTE ]
I cant get my head around people calling this river raise.

That river is such an easy bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]


you are half right oink.

why are you betting? what hand is going to call you?

there are not enough calling hands to justify a bet here.

a key here is, the villian might bluff with PP, but may fold if we bet.

He will also bet and Q, J, and probably T if he check.

HE can't really have a J or T, unless he's horrible.

That is why I check, because he can't have Jx, or Tx often enough.

as played, omg, fold the river, it's over

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

pocket pairs bluff the river? nope. 3x 5x 66 check behind. some tens get to the turn (AT/KT) and they could easily check too. surprised you guys are saying he folds a pair ever.

imo betting is better, standard river play. don't give him credit for folding pairs. don't give him monies by calling his raise.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

I could see him having AT or even KT here. Pocket pairs are possible as are A3 and A5. IMO theres a lot of value in a river bet.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

Betting river is a must, must, must, people call with all sorts of hands. River raises like that are usually not a bluff so I'd fold.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

OP I think you played this fine. If you have them I think you should post some stats/reads to get better responses.

Re: KJs in SB vs PFR
 

[ QUOTE ]
I could see him having AT or even KT here. Pocket pairs are possible as are A3 and A5. IMO theres a lot of value in a river bet.

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If you think the villain can have all these hands on the river and will call a river bet then you should bet/fold. Whats most important here is understand that the river is between bet/fold and check/call. Against most opponents I play against check/calling will be better than bet/folding but there are plenty of times where bet/folding will be the money line.

One of the keys to playing a complex game like poker is using your experience and skill to simplify things. This situation can be simplified by breaking the river down into 2 lines. Bet/folding and check/calling. Once we have done that, the right play comes down to your judgement of the opponent you are playing against.