Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

I cap the flop multiway every single time on this board, and lead a card like a queen, but go for a check raise when an A, K, or another under rolls off.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

That flop is way to draw heavy to stop, just bet and raise until you think you might be beat, then call down. On the turn I think you should 3bet, he can and should have lots and lots of hands that aren't JT here.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

the three hands that make most sense for 2p2er villain is KQcc, QJcc, JTcc and *possibly* QTcc, though i would lean heavily towards KQcc, since *if he's solid, yada yada yada* that *should* be his most likely hand.

i'd go ahead and 3-bet the turn and start sniffling a little if the villain caps it. but it would take two different acts of aggression on the river for me to ever fold it here, it's just a matter of how much i want to pay (or charge) for a showdown, and i think 3-betting the turn is fine.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

Right; cutoff is representing a flush draw or straight draw. Don't fool around on the flop--make him pay and pay and pay.

And pay again when an irrelevant card comes on the turn.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call planning on c/r'ing the turn.



[/ QUOTE ]

no. there (a) are too many draws on that board and (b) too many cards that can freeze up the turn action. you flopped the joint. go bonkers.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
That flop is way to draw heavy to stop, just bet and raise until you think you might be beat, then call down. On the turn I think you should 3bet, he can and should have lots and lots of hands that aren't JT here.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is bad. there is not a single hand that CO can have here that he has played well preflop, but the most likely is JTs. we have the pfr murdered, so let him call the turn drawing to likely 2 outs and hopefully we fill up on the river.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

what a donkish 2p2er this guys is to come in with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or QQ AQ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] can't imagine overplaying AQ like that but in this situ, i'd re-re-re-raise and get utg+1 to lay down some bigarse overpair and take it to the river and c/c and be disgusted. you might even put in one more raise on a safe river in case he might be doggystyling with 88.

the real story
 

I was actually the BB in this hand. Surf was the CO. It was just more interesting to post from my side of it. Anyway, before I post what really happened, I want to hear what hands people think surf (the CO here) could 4 bet the turn with. That should help us figure out a plan for the rest of the hand. Keep in mind we know each other really well and play a very similar style.

Re: the real story
 

Well when someone like you coldcalls preflop I automatically think you have exactly 77-99, but his flop+turn play makes me think he would be coldcalling sooted broadways. I am leaning away from big clubs with a Q because it would make sense to raise the flop when he has a realistic chance of having tons of outs, not on the turn when he hits after the other two of you have put a lot of action. If he had 88 then I think he needs to get aggressive on this flop because he doesn't want his customer to get scared on many different turn cards. So a set makes no sense. Broadway clubs with a Q don't make sense. So he must have one of the other three JTs combos I think.

Your only play can be to call and hope the board pairs and also hope the passive guy doesn't have QQ. I really hate folding the river UI because the pot is so big, so I probably sit there for 30 seconds knowing I'm about to make a bad call before finally convincing myself I could see 88 or a really weird AA.

A lot of what to do really depends on what you think Surf is coldcalling with. IMO coldcalling with sooted broadways here is pretty bad RIO. I don't think 77-99 are quite as bad in terms of getting there and getting pounded, but you will still spend a bet or so postflop before finding out you are not best. I personally think the vast majority of hands he is likely to choose to get involved with here are not worth playing. If everything I said above is off and he is coldcalling with like AQ/TT only then ignore me. I never coldcall without callers between so I can't really speak from experience.

BTW if you check/3bet the turn then I think his 4betting range needs to be JT and that's it. I think coldcalling with QQ preflop is awful so I'll pretend he can't have that.

Also for your hand I think the best play is to cap the flop and then c/r safe turn cards but perhaps your cap will be seen as too strong and the play would be better for someone with a crackfiend type image. If you don't think you can get away with cap and then c/r the best play is to cap and keep betting until someone tells you that your hand is not best.

Re: commerce 40, weird action vs 2p2er
 

More likely he coldcalled with 88 or 55 than JT don't you think?

3 bet(UTG won't fold his overpair), call down from a cap. Unless of course you fill on the river, then I'd lead.