Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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Uh, we don't beat AxT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

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Oh yeah. I stand by my thoughts of calling for information if you want it, but not cause we're good.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

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Right, but in this case it seems like checking behind with position isn't terrible. Since this is a multi-way pot, on this board you're getting calls either from a draw or a justifiably cautious better A, and all you're really doing is building a pot with TPNK when practically half the deck scares you. Why not check behind and bet the turn if checked to you again on a blank when they won't be getting odds to call with a bare club? Or, in this case, since you hit two pair, you can raise the turn if bet into. If a scare card (club/K/T/maybe Q or J too) comes and there's action ahead of you, I'm ok letting this hand go.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

I'm not folding Aces Up on the river for 8.25:1 odds against an unkown. You will lose the majority of the time but against an unkown, I don't think it's unreasonable to say you win 12% of the time.

Yes, you are beat a lot here, but we have no idea what kind of player Villain is. If he sucks, he could have made this play with AK. It's even possible he has QJ. There is also no guarantee he has a flush.

Edit to add: Even if you are only good say 5% of the time, I think it's worth that small -EV to get some information.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

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That's not at all what I meant. I don't have much against betting the flop, but I think that checking is better play here. If we bet the flop, anyone with a club is geting odds to call us. So our bet on the flop won't cause our opponent to do anything wrong and we are also helping him to draw correctly on the turn by building the pot. If we check, we'll forcing him to draw without proper odds.

I think that best way to win, is to put your opponent in position to make as many mistakes during the hand as possible.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

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That's not at all what I meant. I don't have much against betting the flop, but I think that checking is better play here. If we bet the flop, anyone with a club is geting odds to call us. So our bet on the flop won't cause our opponent to do anything wrong and we are also helping him to draw correctly on the turn by building the pot. If we check, we'll forcing him to draw without proper odds.

I think that best way to win, is to put your opponent in position to make as many mistakes during the hand as possible.

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But if u check at flop u will make bigger mistakes !
U say that if u bet then FD has odds to call, u right, but if u just check then give him FREE CARD its really bad, he dont have to pay to see next cards and has better odds than he must pay at least 1sb (if no one c/r flop).

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

if i was playing with a clear head I easily check this flop ...

there are about 5millions cards you don't want to see on the turn ... someone can have a better ace (and will never fold) ... this is an easy slow play board

IMO you don't have enough equity to bet into 3 opponents

?? ... anyone think a 3bet free showdown raise is any good
-->villain slow plays two pair here a lot, semi-bluffs if hero has shown a little weakness lately

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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if i was playing with a clear head I easily check this flop ...

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I think not betting the flop is a very poor decision. Waiting for the turn situations are only when someone else has bet, IMO. Giving a free card is a big mistake.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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if i was playing with a clear head I easily check this flop ...

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I think not betting the flop is a very poor decision. Waiting for the turn situations are only when someone else has bet, IMO. Giving a free card is a big mistake.

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when your hand isn't exactly strong and the pot is small .. you give up very little (or nothing at all) by not betting this flop

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I think the concept has a relationship to the strenght of your hand and the texture of the board ... you want to protect your hand which is the same as protecting your % of the pot ...