Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

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must have had a craptacular childhood.

I agree with you in general, but this wasn't just "wanting attention" Like poker, we don't know the preflop (pre-start of recording) action, so there is no context to why they are doing what they are doing, we don't know why the kid is clearly faking and doing it ONLY when the parents are in view.

If you can't laugh at this, well, this isn't pyschologyforum.com.

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worst use of a poker metaphor i've seen in sometime.

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

i heart that clip...they had a well trained dog too=0)

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

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I'll never understand why people think that the best way to deal with a child who wants some attention is to ignore him. I see this in the grocery store all the time.

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so how do you suggest dealing with a child like that?

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

way to [censored] up the kid, he was just laying there crying and they dont even go help him!!!!!!!

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll never understand why people think that the best way to deal with a child who wants some attention is to ignore him. I see this in the grocery store all the time.

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so how do you suggest dealing with a child like that?

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When my wife was expecting our first child, I asked all the parents I knew for child-raising advice. The most memorable tidbit was this:

"Two things: Shower them with attention, and keep them busy."

So I've been doing that since the day they were born. I've never had a wailing, minutes-long tantrum to deal with. Because I never ignore my kids, they don't act that way.

Ignoring them isn't the solution--it's the problem.

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll never understand why people think that the best way to deal with a child who wants some attention is to ignore him. I see this in the grocery store all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]
so how do you suggest dealing with a child like that?

[/ QUOTE ]

When my wife was expecting our first child, I asked all the parents I knew for child-raising advice. The most memorable tidbit was this:

"Two things: Shower them with attention, and keep them busy."

So I've been doing that since the day they were born. I've never had a wailing, minutes-long tantrum to deal with. Because I never ignore my kids, they don't act that way.

Ignoring them isn't the solution--it's the problem.

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Now I'm not a parent, so I'm not going to act self-righteous here, just asking. But don't kids need some sense that they should be able to handle themselves? Just a little bit of self-reliance needs to be instilled, right? You're keeping them satiated for the time being, but what about long-term impact?

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

i agree actually, but the time i reread what i wrote with a fresh perspective it was way to late to edit

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

A young Christian Ronaldo

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

(Long, boring, and way off topic. In fact, I suggest that nobody should read it. CLIFF NOTES: I was asked for some of my opinions on parenting, and here's my answer.)

Before I go any further with these "Advice from the Perfect Parent" posts, I should note that my oldest kid is ten years old. Being a successful parent when you have no teenagers is like being a great hitter in the minor leagues. I haven't faced Big League heat yet, and I know it. Kids are simple. TEENS are tough.

I told you earlier that the advice that I've clung to the most was "Smother 'em with attention, and keep 'em busy." These words were spoken to me by a co-worker named John.

John, at the time, was the father of the perfect 12-year-old, a girl who got straight A's, played sports, played in the band, and did volunteer work.

One year later, this perfect father had a teenager on his hands, and he completely changed before my eyes. He went from happy-go-lucky, to always stressed and grumpy.

ME: What's wrong, John?

JOHN: I've got a 13-year-old who thinks she knows EVERYTHING. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I lost touch with John when I moved out of Las Vegas in 2000. A few years ago, a friend in Vegas told me John had passed away.

"Wow, he was too young to die," I said. "That stress must've killed him. Heart attack? Stroke?"

Nope. He blew his brains out in his car at WalMart.

So as far as parenting goes, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop when my kids hit 13.

As for your question:

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But don't kids need some sense that they should be able to handle themselves? Just a little bit of self-reliance needs to be instilled, right? You're keeping them satiated for the time being, but what about long-term impact?

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I didn't mean to imply that I drop what I'm doing and entertain them on their every whim. My point was that by giving the kid lots of attention, the kid isn't starving for attention, nor constantly acting crazy to get it.

Attention doesn't have to be playing peek-a-boo round the clock. Just TALKING to them is attention. Watching TeleTubbies with them is attention.

ME: Who's your favorite TeleTubbie?

KID: Dipsy!

ME: Is he the purple faggy one?

KID: NO! Dipsy is green!

Little moments like that keep the kid from doing stupid things in the name of getting your attention.

My kids don't sit in the grocery cart screaming "Mommy! Mommy! Mommy! Mommy! Mommy!" when my wife is trying to pick out a tomato. They see plenty of Mommy all day and night. Mommy doesn't spend her day telling the kids to leave the room because "I'm on the phone!" or "I'm watching tv!", so they can chill while Mommy is scoping out the tomatoes.

Attention is only part of it. It's all about setting the tone early. You reward good behavior, and you make it clear that bad behavior will not be tolerated.

The "reward" doesn't have to be a bribe. It could be, guess what? ATTENTION! Often, the only reward I ever gave them was words: "Wow, you kids were so good in that store! I know it's boring in there, and a lot of kids can't handle it. But you guys made me really proud. Do you know what 'proud' means?"

It doesn't matter if they know what any of those words mean. They can tell from your tone that they pleased you, and that pleases them.

There will be times, however, when they put you to the test. They start jumping and hollering, and you tell them in a firm voice (you don't need to shout) that you won't allow that. At least once, they'll test you. They'll continue to misbehave, to see if you follow through, or if you put up with their nonsense.

This is The Moment of Truth in parenting. If you cave here, you've lost them forever. It's all over. Consign yourself to a lifetime of screaming brats in shopping carts.

Turn on your most menacing voice (again, don't shout, be cool like Tony Soprano), and say, "You stop jumping and shouting right now. You sit quietly, or I will take you outside and spank your butt."

Since this is The Test, they push it, and see if you follow through, or cave in to them. They continue the disruptive and embarrassing behavior.

You pick up the child, walk quickly to the nearest exit, out the door, around the corner (out of public sight), and spank that butt. Hard. Until your hand hurts. When your done, and the child is screaming and crying, don't try to shush him. Hold him, and let him vent. Hug him while he gets it all out of his system.

Once he's caught his breath, explain to him that's what happens when he acts like a bad kid. Good kids get treats, and bad kids get whipped. (Never tell him he's a bad kid; but feel free to point out those times when he's "acting like" a bad kid would behave, and that you don't like when he acts that way.)

Guess what? After "The Test" stage, you don't have to hit the kids any more. I haven't laid a hand on my kids since (the only exception is when they lie to me, and they KNOW it's the only zero-tolerance exception--that's been tested, too--so that almost never happens any more, either).

Do you know how many times old people, strangers, walk up to our table at restaurants? "I just had to come over and compliment you and your wife. Your children are so well behaved! We saw you folks come in, and we thought, 'Oh no, those young kids are going to be sitting right next to us!' But they never threw anything on the floor; not once did any of them raise their voice...we were amazed! They just sat there and played quietly with their crayons! You just don't see that any more!"

Like I said, there has never been a time where the kids cried out for me, and I ignored them. Yet, they can just pull out their crayons and chill, which I suppose answers your question about self-reliance.

(If any of you think I'm a bad person for spanking my children, save it--I could care less what you think. It wasn't a casual matter for me. I agonized over whether or not that was the way to go. I'm fine with it. I've got three kids, and have only given two spankings in the last four years. Again, it's not my SOP.)

Re: Smart Baby. Smarter Parents?
 

v interesting. Ive thought alot about the physical punishment methods. Originally I thought its a bad thing to do, and that you should be able to help yourself with different measures. However, the key point in the situation that you describe is that you need to clarify that if that kid doesnt stop now, there will be punishment. Now, the thing is, that parents who do things like "If he does that, I will be ignoring him for the rest of the day. Since he needs my attention he will stop eventually." usually have the most problems with their kids.

The problematic with such "modern" approaches (hitting kids used to be completely standard) is that very young kids dont draw conclusions / connect action and reaction like we do. If a child pictures your new white wallpapers with stickmen and you come home 3 hours later and start berating it, theres a high chance it wont have a clue whats going on. It cant see a connection between drawing with crayons and being punished. So it will do it again, since there was nothing wrong with drawing on wallpapers.


The same goes for the situation you describe. You cant just tell the kid to stop it for two or maybe three times, and then go off "ignoring" it. First of all, its gonna feel an immediate "VICTORY". That ol´ bastard quit being an moron and now I can do whatever the [censored] I want. Then the kid does that for the next two hours and feels great. After those couple of hours it wants your attention but doesnt get it. Your mad at your kid. But its not gonna know why.

This goes for soooo many ways of punishing your kid for doing bad things. Whatever you do, and no matter how you do it. You need to be sure it connects these consequences correctly. Just like rewards. You arent proud of your kid being quiet in the restaurant, and 3 hours later decide to say "wow, you know what, that was great". No, you do it immediately, just like you should.


[disclaimer]
my 2 cents, no more no less. Unproven opinions. Im a 20yr old broke ass German who fails at life.