Re: Is chasing higher ranked hands ever justified?
 

you want to punish your opponents for incorrectly chasing when the odds dictate that they would be better off folding.
Sometimes they will win. But over time they are paying you off more when your hand holds up then they will be making for the times when they chase.

You say that you understand the concept of pot-odds but I think your understanding still needs work.
SSHE as was recommended would be a good place to start for some of this stuff.

Re: Is chasing higher ranked hands ever justified?
 

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I understand the concepts of pot odds and hand rankings based on mathematics, but if there is really no defense in limit games against chasing - what can you do other than bet once and you will simply be called down until the chaser either makes their hand or doesn't and gives up - then why isn't chasing the flushes/straights considered more of a viable strategy?

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But there is a defense - playing the hand like you did!

Look at it this way: If your opponents could only beat you by drawing to the BD flush that they hit, then you're going to win this hand 99% of the time and only lose 1% of the time...and you'll make a ton of money.

You got hung up on the 1% of the time they win, instead of focusing on the 99% they lose. And keep in mind that poker is only a popular game becuase of these suckouts. If poor play correlated immediately to poor results, like chess, then virtually nobody would play for money, like chess.

Re: Is chasing higher ranked hands ever justified?
 

they were approximately 23-1 underdogs on the flop drawing to that backdoor flush. probably worse given the strength of your hand/draw. they got lucky. it happens.

Re: Is chasing higher ranked hands ever justified?
 

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they got lucky. it happens.

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Often. Oh! It happens often. It really, really does. LHE (and poker in general I suspect) can and does suck out your will to live.

Hasn't this happened to you three times in the space of four minutes before?

The Way it Really Is
 

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they got lucky. it happens.

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Often. Oh! It happens often. It really, really does. LHE (and poker in general I suspect) can and does suck out your will to live.

Hasn't this happened to you three times in the space of four minutes before?

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it's funny. we always forget about the times we river that backdoor straight or flush draw. the time we turn a set versus AA or KK. but when it happens to us, whoah watch out! that's not fair!

Re: The Way it Really Is
 

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we always forget about the times we river that backdoor straight or flush draw. the time we turn a set versus AA or KK. but when it happens to us, whoah watch out! that's not fair!

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The feeling I get when I draw out on someone in any way is not in proportion to the feeling of devastation I get when I get drawn out on.

Possibly because I am a non-terrible player, at least in the games I play. As such I will very rarely draw out on someone without playing correctly. Because of this I will also have to cop more of them than I dish out.

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The Way it Really Is

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I know I can't make money at poker without other players making errors. But I know bad beats are terrible. Why can't we acknowledge and celebrate them as such?

Re: The Way it Really Is
 

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I know I can't make money at poker without other players making errors. But I know bad beats are terrible. Why can't we acknowledge and celebrate them as such?

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It's the same mentality the causes people to berate the fish at the table. I'll never figure it out.

If you never took a bad beat, that'd mean you never had people chasing you. And you'd never win money.

Re: The Way it Really Is
 

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It's the same mentality the causes people to berate the fish at the table. I'll never figure it out.

If you never took a bad beat, that'd mean you never had people chasing you. And you'd never win money.

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Yeah I know. Do you enjoy it when you cop a terrible beat? Or an extreme series of them?

Winning money and copping terrible beats are related. But beats feel terrible when they happen. That's what I think.

But I think it would be against the spirit of poker to berate a 'fish'. I don't even like calling them that. The more I play, the more I realise poker is gambling. So I think let them gamble like everyone else at the table.

Re: The Way it Really Is
 

The psychology of the beats, etc gets kind of wacky sometimes.

Perhaps try thinking of yourself as a casino.
In the short-run some customer is going to run hot on blackjack even though they are playing at a 1% disadvantage.
Maybe they are even playing at a much higher disadvantage with really awful strategy like always doubling on hard-12 or something yet they are still making a killing.

No biggie.
"Pay him. Pay that man his money."

Over time you know you have the advantage and will be a winner even if some of the customers get some wins along the way.

The key though is to not assume that what you THINK is winning poker really is or that you are pretty much playing 'correct' poker just because you have a hard time seeing any other way to have played a given hand.
I would bet that almost every single player on this forum makes far more mistakes than they realize.

Re: The Way it Really Is
 

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Do you enjoy it when you cop a terrible beat? Or an extreme series of them?

Winning money and copping terrible beats are related. But beats feel terrible when they happen. That's what I think.

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Nobody enjoys taking bad beats. But I think many of us want to own both sides of the coin. How often do we say "I didn't deserve such a big pot. Two people called bets on the turn and river and neither had odds to call past the flop."? We think we're somehow 'owed' the extra bets that poor players routinely put into the pot and then we get upset when those players get lucky and borrow some of those bets back.

Watch the TV pros. They take horrible beats all the time and generally just shrug their shoulders and wait for the next hand. Sometimes they don't even shrug their shoulders. I'm sure it hurts inside, but they recognize the beats as part of the game.