Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

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raising the flop is pretty bad.

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Why?

I normally wouldn't raise this here on a typical 4 outer such as a gutshot with no pair. But in this case I have a pair which could improve to trips or two pair, plus there are a bunch of cards that could come on the turn (any heart, 7, 8 or 9) where I'd like to get a free card. Still bad?

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

I put him on a straight that hasn't given up yet (after he was in charge on the turn, why would he suspect a 6 made you a boat?).

Only calling your flop raise with 2P makes sense from a bad, easily scared player, but not from a halfway decent or a bad but aggressive one. 2P is at risk, can drive out live draws with a 3-bet, and should not be pussing out because you might have flopped a straight.

Plus, don't forget that there are 16 outstanding QJ hands, versus 3 KT, 3 T9, and 3 99. Since I'm downgrading the chance of his flop play with 2P, I think he has the straight somewhere around 70% of the time, plus around 7% 99. Looks pretty good.

If this were capped at 4 heads-up, like most online games, I'd cap easily. With unlimited raises, I'd give it one more, make a crying call if he goes to 5, but very much expecting him to call the 4-bet with QJ and swear at me for hitting such a crappy hand.

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

As far as the free card raise, I think you should do it only some of the time, like 1/4. You will get similar flops frequently, and even bad players will notice if you're frequently showing strength followed by weakness on the later streets, and start defending against your free card even without consciously realizing that's what they're doing.

As far as playing T6s for a whole bet, yeah, Jojo is right, don't do it. It has unfavorable equity even against a very loose range for opponents, plus you have to pay rake and tip. I'm pretty sure the edge I have over my opponents is not going to overcome this.

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

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PF is fine IMO, but i usually dont even bother peeling the flop here in an unraised pot.

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Blah. If you're going to play this preflop, you need to continue with middle pair for 1 SB getting 11:1 on the flop.

-McGee

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

I would fold pf. This hand is really weak and I would guess (should run equity calculations though) that is -EV. From sb I would play.


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raising the flop is pretty bad.

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Why?

I normally wouldn't raise this here on a typical 4 outer such as a gutshot with no pair. But in this case I have a pair which could improve to trips or two pair, plus there are a bunch of cards that could come on the turn (any heart, 7, 8 or 9) where I'd like to get a free card. Still bad?

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Your draw is weaker than a gutshot (a hit gutshot on a non-flush, non-paired board is strong, while two pair or trips may still be behind), and you would like to see the turn for a heart or one of your straight cards. The turn has more value than the river.

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raising the flop is pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

I normally wouldn't raise this here on a typical 4 outer such as a gutshot with no pair. But in this case I have a pair which could improve to trips or two pair, plus there are a bunch of cards that could come on the turn (any heart, 7, 8 or 9) where I'd like to get a free card. Still bad?

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i agree that raising on the flop is questionable--the only thing going for it is the possibility of getting a free card on the turn, but you also risk being reraised by SB...

by itself, raising will not drive out anyone as by the time play gets to you there are 3 others that have already put money in the pot in this round, plus you mentioned the table is loose, passive except for SB, who is leading the action--there are 3 cards on the flop that are in the "play zone"---that is, cards that are most likely to be in the hands of your opponents that put in money pre-flop, and a straight is a real possibility--so figure 3 others have connected with this flop somehow, perhaps top pair weak kicker, gut shot straight draw with or without a paired card, or middle/bottom pair drawing with a good kicker...and as for considering the value of your raise, with 3 others and someone else leading the betting, odds are you not ahead right now, or if you ahead its very probable you pair of T's will not win unimprove (reverse negative odds)...and your draw to a flush is weak...i would put you as having more like 6 outs, (2 T's, 6's and a bdfd, i don't think any of those outs are tainted much) but with 6 out of 47, you odds of improving are 8 to 1, and your 2nd bet put in will get only 3 to 1 odds (marginal value)--thus the raise does not have positive marginal expectation...

just calling is better play imho, unless you have some additional table reads that says you can buy a free card here...

fwiw, i would have capped on the river also---why not, it's only $4 more you stand to lose...

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

You are going to lose a lot of money playing starting hands like that in a limit game. Position and pot odds cannot justify calling pre-flop. JoJoDiego hit the nail on the head with his comments and I also agree with Babar about the flop raise. You got very lucky on this particular hand. It will not continue. Sorry if this offends you or others, but I think you should know.

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

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You are going to lose a lot of money playing starting hands like that in a limit game. Position and pot odds cannot justify calling pre-flop. JoJoDiego hit the nail on the head with his comments and I also agree with Babar about the flop raise. You got very lucky on this particular hand. It will not continue. Sorry if this offends you or others, but I think you should know.

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lol

Re: 2/4 B&M - Are you trying to tell me my boat has a leak in it #1?
 

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You are going to lose a lot of money playing starting hands like that in a limit game. Position and pot odds cannot justify calling pre-flop. JoJoDiego hit the nail on the head with his comments and I also agree with Babar about the flop raise. You got very lucky on this particular hand. It will not continue. Sorry if this offends you or others, but I think you should know.

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hummm, well in the OP's defense, i will say this hand is not all together bad to play here...and certainly if he can learn to play these hands well he can make up his starting disadvantage post flop and ultimately, gain experience enough to become a very good player capable of making a silk purse from difficult hands like this...

and certainly, this hand could alter the OP's perception by the other players...but except for the old guy here, it may be wasted on the passive weaks around the table.