Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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sorry speedlimits, but there is nothing standard about calling a raise w/ AA, don't get me wrong it's fine to do for decpetion, but you should re-raise most of the time. If the turn is a raise then the flop is a bet, do you see why?

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Because I am betting for value and raising for value? Why should I 4bet here and scare someone off AK/JJ?

This EXACT situation happened today. It was raised, I have A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I 3bet. The guy 4bet me and I laid down AK. He showed AA. He lost so much value there.

I think it is way more EV+ to call people's 3bets IN POSITION when you have AA/KK when you have 100BB effective stacks or less. You want them to pick up a draw or top pair on the flop and get it all in with you as a 2-1, 3-1. 4-1 favorite.

Winning 67% of $50 is way more EV than winning 100% of $6.

I still don't agree that that in order to raise his smallish turn bet you need to bet flop. Checking the flop was done for a few reasons.

1) Deception against an aggressive opponent
2) Pot Control against a Jack
3) Get more Value out of smaller pockets.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

Yes I like the pf call against this type of opponent. Checking for pot control is horrible here, you are in a RR pot and you have the nuts. Checking for deception is a different story. His check on the flop seems fishy to me. He'd bet w/ AK here almost always IMO but sometimes I see villains get scared with AK on paired flops thinking you'll call with any pp. If you think he flopped trips with AJ I think you're seeing monsters. I like a bet on the flop actually as I think he will c/r you a lot. As played raise turn for value, you have the [censored] nuts get your stack in there. River, damn thats either a really bad card for you or a really good one. He's got AK or KK, take your pick, probably a good fold though. You underepped your hand so bad here.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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Yes I like the pf call against this type of opponent. Checking for pot control is horrible here, you are in a RR pot and you have the nuts. Checking for deception is a different story. His check on the flop seems fishy to me. He'd bet w/ AK here almost always IMO but sometimes I see villains get scared with AK on paired flops thinking you'll call with any pp. If you think he flopped trips with AJ I think you're seeing monsters. I like a bet on the flop actually as I think he will c/r you a lot. As played raise turn for value, you have the [censored] nuts get your stack in there. River, damn thats either a really bad card for you or a really good one. He's got AK or KK, take your pick, probably a good fold though. You underepped your hand so bad here.

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Thank you, totally agree with pf. A bet on the flop is definitely solid too. If I bet flop I think QQ-KK raises me and then I can push.

As played yeah I should have raised turn, definitely messed that up. As far as whether he has KK or AK KK is more likely from a pure statistic standpoint.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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Preflop: The best move is to 4-bet; get as much money in as possible while you're sure you're ahead.

Flop: Bet. You need very badly to take back the lead in this hand. If the villain check-pushes, you can easily fold to the likely jack.

Turn: Part of the reason for betting the flop was to be able to check behind on the turn, and encourage him to bluff the river. As played, you're only beaten by a jack (in his reasonable hand range), so you've got to call.

River: The guy 3-bet and didn't lead on the flop, which tells me he's either being sneaky or is afraid of the jack. You have way under-repped your AA, so AK or KQ is probably assuming it's good right now - he could also be trying to push you out (since you've played it like you might have a king) with QQ, TT, etc. I think you've got to call here.

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Preflop is a standard call in position with 100BB effective stacks. ESPECIALLY against someone this aggressive...wow horrible advice.

Bet on flop is WA/WB situation, checking flop gets me more value out of 1010,QQ,KK type hands.

Turn I have no clue where I am at, that's why I think in hindsight a raise is good here. For value.

It's pretty obvious I'm beat on the river so fold is so easy.

You don't call light against people with Win%@SD 50%+ for the most part. Guaranteed he had KK here though.

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so you asked for advice so you could in turn give everyone else your own poorly reasoned advice? its 25NL, people are idiots and call 4-bets with all sorts of crap. playing passive is not how to beat these games.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

"$25NL 6max I played AA badly help"

That's your thread title then you tell everyone they don't know what they're doing?

Majority of the time raise preflop. Hope he comes over the top and you get all in vs. AK, KK, QQ.

As played, preflop call is OK.

Flop - bet $6 - I stack off against AJ here. You also stack QQ & KK here a lot of the time with no A on the flop

Turn - try to get the rest in

You see JJ and you automatically assume AJ. You see a K and you assume KK. What do you need to see to play your AA against? A rainbow board under 9 with no str8 possibilities? Although he might have raised 22 for deception and have quads on the turn... If Mr. 57% has you this freaked out, you should find a different table.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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so you asked for advice so you could in turn give everyone else your own poorly reasoned advice? its 25NL, people are idiots and call 4-bets with all sorts of crap. playing passive is not how to beat these games.

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QFT.

Speedlimits, you asked for advice and then took the bits and pieces that backed up your own admitted misplay of the hand. 4-betting with AA is standard and not horrible advice. I gave you examples of hands that the villain is pushing with on the river that you had beat, as did others. You shouldn't take a rude tone with people who you've asked for help if you decide you disagree with them. If you're going to do that, why are you even posting here?

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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Preflop: The best move is to 4-bet; get as much money in as possible while you're sure you're ahead.

Flop: Bet. You need very badly to take back the lead in this hand. If the villain check-pushes, you can easily fold to the likely jack.

Turn: Part of the reason for betting the flop was to be able to check behind on the turn, and encourage him to bluff the river. As played, you're only beaten by a jack (in his reasonable hand range), so you've got to call.

River: The guy 3-bet and didn't lead on the flop, which tells me he's either being sneaky or is afraid of the jack. You have way under-repped your AA, so AK or KQ is probably assuming it's good right now - he could also be trying to push you out (since you've played it like you might have a king) with QQ, TT, etc. I think you've got to call here.

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Preflop is a standard call in position with 100BB effective stacks. ESPECIALLY against someone this aggressive...wow horrible advice.

Bet on flop is WA/WB situation, checking flop gets me more value out of 1010,QQ,KK type hands.

Turn I have no clue where I am at, that's why I think in hindsight a raise is good here. For value.

It's pretty obvious I'm beat on the river so fold is so easy.

You don't call light against people with Win%@SD 50%+ for the most part. Guaranteed he had KK here though.

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so you asked for advice so you could in turn give everyone else your own poorly reasoned advice? its 25NL, people are idiots and call 4-bets with all sorts of crap. playing passive is not how to beat these games.

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4bet pf isn't the most EV play against this time of opponent.

The flop is debatable for check/bet. I actually like in bet in hindsight, pushing turn is good too.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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so you asked for advice so you could in turn give everyone else your own poorly reasoned advice? its 25NL, people are idiots and call 4-bets with all sorts of crap. playing passive is not how to beat these games.

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QFT.

Speedlimits, you asked for advice and then took the bits and pieces that backed up your own admitted misplay of the hand. 4-betting with AA is standard and not horrible advice. I gave you examples of hands that the villain is pushing with on the river that you had beat, as did others. You shouldn't take a rude tone with people who you've asked for help if you decide you disagree with them. If you're going to do that, why are you even posting here?

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Lol@rude tone. If anyone gave a rude tone it was the responders and not the OP. Anyways, what are the benefits of 4betting besides 100% defining your hand? Especially in position?

Calling a 3bet in position against an aggro opponents is much more EV.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

Re-raise preflop, bet the flop, check the turn, call/value bet the river. That is the line I would take.

Re: $25NL 6max I played AA badly help
 

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"$25NL 6max I played AA badly help"

That's your thread title then you tell everyone they don't know what they're doing?

Majority of the time raise preflop. Hope he comes over the top and you get all in vs. AK, KK, QQ.

As played, preflop call is OK.

Flop - bet $6 - I stack off against AJ here. You also stack QQ & KK here a lot of the time with no A on the flop

Turn - try to get the rest in

You see JJ and you automatically assume AJ. You see a K and you assume KK. What do you need to see to play your AA against? A rainbow board under 9 with no str8 possibilities? Although he might have raised 22 for deception and have quads on the turn... If Mr. 57% has you this freaked out, you should find a different table.

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YEah i will admit I played it way too passively. Do you usually 4bet with AA as a standard line against unknowns?