Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

Would you call with two-pair as well? Because I can't see how you're beating anything other than a bluff. I doubt the guy is valuebetting any lower than a flush, and as pointed out the only lower flush is 5s3s.

I'd expect to see a higher flush at least 80% of the time here.

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

Puke - Fold

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

raise more on flop, fold river [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

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Looks a pretty simple fold to me. What do you expect him to show you here?

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I disagree considering the line we took. hero's line reps hands much weaker than what hero's holding on the river and i can see villain turning a lot of hands we beat into a bluff considering stack sizes. i can also see villain pushing a flopped set for value here against AA-QQ, which is what it looks like hero has.

with the price we're getting i don't see how you can fold. plus, villain's line looks more like a flopped set/2 pair than a fd.

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

This doesn't look like a flopped set at all. He waits for the flush draw to hit before value checkraising his set?

Hero has played well and is not representing AA-QQ. He is representing a wide range from air to thin value bets to straight to flushes. Without knowing something significant about the history, it would be terrible for villain to valuepush this river with a set as he will rarely be called by worse.

Villain turning a made hand into a bluff is alot more likely than valuepushing a non-flush hand, IMO. However i'd have to know alot more about villain to make this call - I would definitely recommend a fold against your average opponent.

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

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Looks a pretty simple fold to me. What do you expect him to show you here?

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I disagree considering the line we took. hero's line reps hands much weaker than what hero's holding on the river and i can see villain turning a lot of hands we beat into a bluff considering stack sizes. i can also see villain pushing a flopped set for value here against AA-QQ, which is what it looks like hero has.

with the price we're getting i don't see how you can fold. plus, villain's line looks more like a flopped set/2 pair than a fd.

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there's no way villain slow plays a flopped set on this board this deep all the way to the river and then raises when the flush gets there

that would probably be the worst set line i've ever seen

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

I find it alot less likely that he has the flush considering he almost timed out on the turn and more likely than usual that he's bluffing on the river since it was an instant allin.
Call.

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

I should have said something more about table images/ history so here you go...

I sat down with this villain when 9-handed and have played with him for about 5 hours or so. I played super TAG when 7-9 handed, but got extremely agressive when it got down to 4-6 handed (incidentally where I made most of my $$). He's seen me make 2 big bluffs on the river when checked to me on very drawy boards; I would bet ~2/3 of the pot (as I did in this hand) and induce folds while showing something like top pair or a small overpair (i.e. 1010/JJ).

My point here is that he's seen me make these bluffs against other players taking the same type of line as I do here. My first inclination was that he thought I was full of it, but if he did what's the point in c/r unless he thought I'd call with an overpair or TPTK and he was c/r for value somehow? Wouldn't he just call here if he had a set or some kind of 2 pair (45o maybe)?

I think my hand is way way underrepresented here, and I think that his range includes JJ AND 88; i think a turned set is possible.

In his mind, he sees me as being extremely aggro and even bluff-happy at times, so it makes him slowplaying a set this strange way possible, as he knows I will pretty much keep betting when in position.

With this info, is anyone changing their mind?

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

is this live. if so where? this may affect opinions.

Re: 10/20 Flush on turn 300BB Deep
 

No, this is online