Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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I agree with the founders of this country who claimed the right to life comes from God.

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Which country is that? Iran?
Heck, founders claim a lot of things, there's a country in the west that acknowledged 2/3 of a person or some such.

luckyme

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Is that claim in the founding documents of Iran? What a surprise.

As far as I knew, America is the only nation on earth that is premised on the rights of the people coming from God.

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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what is at the heart of deciding this...cognitive capacity?

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Though certain "civil" rights may depend on cognition, I agree with the founders of this country, who claimed the right to life comes from God. No "slippery slope" there.

Where else could it come from: the state, the marketplace?

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unfortunately we don't know when this god (if he even exists) "gives" life

so...we really wouldn't get anywhere anyway..I'm afraid we need another determinant.

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What is an example of a measure you would use for determining life that excludes the human embryo?

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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As far as I knew, America is the only nation on earth that is premised on the rights of the people coming from God.

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even if it is true, just because a dead guy says it, that doesn't mean that we should follow it...

funny how it was not premised on the rights of slaves coming from God as well.

perhaps we should go back to that ideal...since apparently we should make decisions based on their opinions.

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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As far as I knew, America is the only nation on earth that is premised on the rights of the people coming from God.

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Oh, no, there are birds of a feather.
from the Iranian constitution -

"Article 2 [Foundational Principles]
The Islamic Republic is a system based on belief in:
1) the One God (as stated in the phrase "There is no god except Allah"), His exclusive sovereignty and right to legislate, and the necessity of submission to His commands; 2) Divine revelation and its fundamental role in setting forth the laws; "

It has a much better claim to be a religious nation and the above is from some of the milder parts.

I don't think appeals to a personal religion add anything to moral ( or any debate) since there is nothing to debate once one claims Allah and associates are on their side.

luckyme

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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what is at the heart of deciding this...cognitive capacity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Though certain "civil" rights may depend on cognition, I agree with the founders of this country, who claimed the right to life comes from God. No "slippery slope" there.

Where else could it come from: the state, the marketplace?

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unfortunately we don't know when this god (if he even exists) "gives" life

so...we really wouldn't get anywhere anyway..I'm afraid we need another determinant.

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What is an example of a measure you would use for determining life that excludes the human embryo?

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I'm not sure what you are asking?

do you mean "life" as in, to warrant full rights under the law?

if that is the case, well, you could pick anything really...

a specific number of cell divisions, a certain brain capacity, the development of a nervous system to a certain point..

why is the a the existence of a human embryo a better determination of "life" than any other option?

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

The difference between the two (abortion and emancipation) is that an error on the proper time for emancipation does not end in death (or termination of whatever you want to call it, if you don’t call it life).

Now obviously, if one is drafted and goes to war at 18 and gets killed then it does end it death. But, hopefully, you know what I mean - I am talking in general.

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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The difference between the two (abortion and emancipation) is that an error on the proper time for emancipation does not end in death (or termination of whatever you want to call it, if you don’t call it life).

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sure, it is indeed a difference..the cost is certainly higher.

but setting the point at fertilization doesn't solve this problem..

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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The difference between the two (abortion and emancipation) is that an error on the proper time for emancipation does not end in death (or termination of whatever you want to call it, if you don’t call it life).

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It's not helpful to think in terms of 'error' when in an area without demarcation lines. That would be a claim that there are demarcation lines.

luckyme

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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As far as I knew, America is the only nation on earth that is premised on the rights of the people coming from God.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, no, there are birds of a feather.
from the Iranian constitution -

"Article 2 [Foundational Principles]
The Islamic Republic is a system based on belief in:
1) the One God (as stated in the phrase "There is no god except Allah"), His exclusive sovereignty and right to legislate, and the necessity of submission to His commands; 2) Divine revelation and its fundamental role in setting forth the laws; "

It has a much better claim to be a religious nation and the above is from some of the milder parts.

I don't think appeals to a personal religion add anything to moral ( or any debate) since there is nothing to debate once one claims Allah and associates are on their side.

luckyme

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The USA has a secular government, not a theocracy. It is the people who are endowed by their Creator, not the government. I'm sure you can grasp the distinction.

Re: Abortions cutoffs and the Emancipation of Children cutoffs
 

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The difference between the two (abortion and emancipation) is that an error on the proper time for emancipation does not end in death (or termination of whatever you want to call it, if you don’t call it life).

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It's not helpful to think in terms of 'error' when in an area without demarcation lines. That would be a claim that there are demarcation lines.

luckyme

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that is what I wanted to say in my above post, but am too stupid to say