Re: paging Lee Jones
 

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PokerStars takes potential collusion very seriously, and we have state of
the art systems to detect and counter it, as well as a dedicated Collusion
Investigation Team and Security department working 24 hours a day, 7 days
a week, to ensure that you play in games that are fair and safe.

As you know, both ElkY and twin-caracas are high-profile players in the
online world, and as such, any unusual action they take comes under
scrutiny. Every time a player like ElkY checks pocket aces on the river,
or raises in first position with rags, we get an email from a concerned
individual wondering if they are cheating. Of course we investigate all of
these complaints, and players like ElkY and twin-caracas are reviewed
frequently as a result.

We have never found anything to make us believe that either ElkY or twin-
caracas is working with another player to the detriment of others.

In this particular hand, it is clear that for whatever reason, ElkY and
twin-caracas chose not to bet their strong hands against one another. Note
however that this is a heads-up pot, and is a cash game, not a tournament.
The other players are not affected in any way by their decision to check
it down - they have no legitimate interest in what happens.

If this had been a tournament, the equity of the other players at the
table would have been significantly affected by the decision, and we would
have grounds to take action. We would also possibly have reason to take
action if a third player had been present in the pot. However this was not
the case, and we have plenty of evidence to show that ElkY and twin-
caracas do play strongly against each other when other players are
involved.

Also note that there is no evidence to support an assumption that the two
players are sharing their hole cards with each other or communicating in
other ways. If one player had bet and the other had folded - well, that
would be a different story.

In summary, I am not concerned about unethical play here. ElkY and twin-
caracas may not be playing in the usual way, but their play does not pose
any threat to other players and therefore we have no grounds for action.

[/ QUOTE ]

lolz?

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

LOL, Stars official position is that TC and Elky (and many others for that matter) are not doing anything wrong AFTER they have chased everyone else from the pot.

Of course the actual chasing is not mentionned....

They should have a sign on their door: CHEATERS WELCOME

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

Reef... let me get this straight...

PS Support is saying they have plenty of evidence that these 2 players are aggresive when there are others in the pot, and soft when it is only the 2 of them?... and this is OK...

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

William you can bump all you want, but soft play between two remaining players in a ring game is not collusion and is universally accepted.

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reef... let me get this straight...

PS Support is saying they have plenty of evidence that these 2 players are aggresive when there are others in the pot, and soft when it is only the 2 of them?... and this is OK...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's certainly what it looks like to me.

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

Not in my world and I will keep bumping. Bad principles that make dollars are ignored until they become embarassing and start scaring customers away. Same thing happened to the reload bug. Nothing wrong with it until too many people started complaining. Then they had no problem fixing it.

Let me also remind you that even if the OP's post is about 2 players, there are plenty of players that are involved in this practice with each other. If you go and play that way with your brother at a casino and explain that you softplay eachother because he is your brother, most will have no problem with it. When you sit at a table and half the players have an agreement with eachother without you knowing about it, it's very morally debatable and should not be allowed.

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you sit at a table and half the players have an agreement with eachother without you knowing about it, it's very morally debatable and should not be allowed.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are right here, but that's not what the OP complaint was about. He had an example where two players were the only ones in a hand and they soft played each other.

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

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Not in my world

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What world do you live in? Every single online and offline poker room allows this form of soft playing in cash games. Bellagio, Commerce, Stars, Party, etc.

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

William, you must have been dropped on your head and seen plenty of Stars when you were a kid.

Do not EVER question PokerStars.

Re: paging Lee Jones
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not in my world

[/ QUOTE ]

What world do you live in? Every single online and offline poker room allows this form of soft playing in cash games. Bellagio, Commerce, Stars, Party, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

HUH.... a honest one? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Read my previous post. There is a difference between softplaying a friend and being part of a softplay group.

Try to show up at the Bellagio and tell the poker manager that you and 4 of your friends that softplay eachother after they have chased other players off the pot will be playing at the same table tonight... let me know if they still allow it.