Re: the limp reraise
 

Given the description of villain and the way the hand played out, I don't think there's a 1 in 21 chance we have the best hand on the river, but I'd still call.

Like several people mentioned, I'd go into call down on the turn.

Re: the limp reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]

KK still has a big enough equity advantage vs 3-4 players that putting in as many bets as you can OOP pf is still the right play. That's why it's not a reason to not LRR.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the preflop equity diminished pretty much in a 4-6 way pot because it's very easy to put in a lot of bets when you're behind, especially OOP.

Anyways, this is the third post telling me this is NOT one of the reasons not to LRR preflop, without even hinting towards what would be a valid reason.

I can accept the fact that I'm horribly wrong, but still I'd appreciate an explanation...

Re: the limp reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
KK still has a big enough equity advantage vs 3-4 players that putting in as many bets as you can OOP pf is still the right play. That's why it's not a reason to not LRR.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is correct to put as many bets in PF as possible with KK from any position. I will agree with that. I think the issue is not to LRR and just raise for protection.

However, I do not think it is a good idea to LRR as stated above because we're basically letting others into the pot and trapping them with the LRR. As the other poster said, we're playing KK OOP in a multiway pot when maybe we didn't have to.

Re: the limp reraise
 

You don't raise KK preflop for protection.

Jesus.

Also I can't help but wonder if the "don't raise the turn" responses are results-oriented.

Re: the limp reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

KK still has a big enough equity advantage vs 3-4 players that putting in as many bets as you can OOP pf is still the right play. That's why it's not a reason to not LRR.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the preflop equity diminished pretty much in a 4-6 way pot because it's very easy to put in a lot of bets when you're behind, especially OOP.

Anyways, this is the third post telling me this is NOT one of the reasons not to LRR preflop, without even hinting towards what would be a valid reason.

I can accept the fact that I'm horribly wrong, but still I'd appreciate an explanation...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok here's why. VS. 3 random hands your equity is roughly 58%. Your position doesn't have any effect on your equity, position has VALUE but doesn't change your equity edge in the slightest. You're putting in 1/4th the pot in order to win 58% of the time, which is an enormous edge, this is why it doesn't matter if we're LRRing OOP.

Re: the limp reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have a hard time laying this hand on river, to one bet in a huge pot. How aggressive is SB postflop? Does the river change anything? What are you putting him on, here?

Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i will play KK for lots of bets with lots of players in any seat you like.

edit: and "no", the river didn't change anything, which means my hand didn't improve and i am cooked.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you're going to fold the river UI, wouldn't it be best to just fold to the turn raise? I can't see us having odds to draw to 2 outs if we know we're beat on the turn, unless we're considering any two pair as partial outs.

Or unless that ace really DOES change things for us.

Re: the limp reraise
 

I call the river in this big pot getting 21.5 to 1 HU. I hope to catch SB w/ a busted flush draw (maybe making a pair of Qs) >4.5% of the time.

-Caddy

Re: the limp reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok here's why. VS. 3 random hands your equity is roughly 58%. Your position doesn't have any effect on your equity, position has VALUE but doesn't change your equity edge in the slightest. You're putting in 1/4th the pot in order to win 58% of the time, which is an enormous edge, this is why it doesn't matter if we're LRRing OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.
I probably mixed up some terms. I can see your point about the equity, though.

What I meant was more like,
LRR might trap some mediocre hands that otherwise would have folded, but now makes it to the flop and could make a better hand than us - which can be hard to avoid paying off OOP. My question is then:

Will the extra SBs you get from a few mediocre hands preflop make up for the times you pay off a bad hand that got lucky?

Also, are there any other reasons NOT to LRR preflop than the chance that you get fewer bets preflop (worst case: family limp)?

Re: the limp reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
You don't raise KK preflop for protection.

Jesus.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you raise KK preflop for value. Protection is an added benefit especially OOP. If the CO would have three bet behind us, maybe that would have forced rocky SB out of the hand. A raise can have more than one use.

Jesus.

I understand what everyone is saying about the equity edge but is our edge really 58% against 3 random hands? That sounds pretty high. Sounds ridiculously high actually.

Re: the limp reraise
 

Who cares, I want the SB in the hand. Only hand I don't want him to have is AA and nothing is going to make him fold it.