Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

i dont think there is much in it between betting and checking the flop - if i was UTG, i would check and see if the PFR bets so i can get some free information off the other players, if they both fold its standard from here. if the button had raised and i act first i simply lead out and make it very hard for the middle 2 players to call with the PFR to act

as played i marginally prefer leading out, mainly for information, but also as this is exactly how i would play a set

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

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i marginally prefer leading out, mainly for information, but also as this is exactly how i would play a set

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so you lead out for "information", and someone pots it, then what?

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

i think my line would be "POT POT POT" probably because im a sick aggro [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

I would prefer leading out 60-70 % of the pot if it suits your playing style. (I play several hands with 60-70 % bets as well when money is deep enough.) You can commit all of your chips against one opponent.

If someone calls your bit "weaky" bet you can bet any turn and take many pots down without showing a hand.

You can also go for check-raise if some opponents have overaggressive tendencies. Against typical 10/20 field I would prefer leading. I probably lead around 70 % of the time and go for check-raise around 30 % of the time. If you check and action gets awful heavy you can sometimes find a fold.

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

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i marginally prefer leading out, mainly for information, but also as this is exactly how i would play a set

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so you lead out for "information", and someone pots it, then what?

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depends who "someone" is

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

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Lets say it's checked to an aggro button who pots it.

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This seems like a good hand to lose a lot of money on. You don't have top pair, no ten and aren't drawing to a nut straight. Most importantly you are out of position.

People have made good arguments for both raising and checking the flop. But to me it seems about even, and since you are OOP I'd check. Unless one of these players has a big exploitable leak you could take advantage of, then I'd tailor my play that way.

As played, probably best to just fold. The button while aggro probably has at least a king, knowing that he'll probably get called by at least one player. And the caller, who is OOP, might have a difficult time getting paid if they hit a draw. Although I have to admit, I'd probably checkraise him and then push any turn.

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

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I would c/r an aggro button definitely, but I would fold it it goes bet-call-raise or some similar permutation. you're pretty much always in reasonably good shape up and down against one opponent and always in reasonably bad shape against more.

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You are actually killing a someone willing to play fairly light even if you include sets:
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/s...amp;h4=&h5=

I also ran some permutations on the ranges that you might encounter at a reasonably non-nitty table, and I can't really find anything that you are as bad as even money.

So I change my answer. As long as this isn't a nitty table with a low average pot size, I'm dying to c/r. (At a nitty table you probably can lead on the flop and take it down.)

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

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Lets say it's checked to an aggro button who pots it.

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This seems like a good hand to lose a lot of money on. You don't have top pair, no ten and aren't drawing to a nut straight. Most importantly you are out of position.

.....

As played, probably best to just fold. The button while aggro probably has at least a king, knowing that he'll probably get called by at least one player. And the caller, who is OOP, might have a difficult time getting paid if they hit a draw. Although I have to admit, I'd probably checkraise him and then push any turn.

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Do you really give aggro button credit for the set? Or top two + nut flush draw or monster draw?

When you play against aggressive regulars you really have to play also other hands than monsters. Omaha is gambling game and this perfect spot to gamble. You have to push these spots to get action (G-bucks) when you flop monster. You also have sometimes to take stand not to get run over all the time.

After check-raise being out of position does not matter any longer. Pot will be very close to all-in and Button will usually shove unless he folds.

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

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oops, didnt notice button called pre flop. that changes things for sure.

gee cmyr, how the hell did you get yourself into this one?

well, if you know the button is aggro and he's going to bet, then of course check raise........but the others would know he's agro too and could be waiting just for that and you could get caught in the middle.

i think a check on the flop is the more prudent play. hands are like buses, just wait and another one will come .

this hand is filled with too many question marks. when there is too many question marks, i like to sway towards avoidance. possibly getting off this hand is not going to ruin your career.

check and see what happens and then flip a coin. its real close.

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But if you keep letting the buses go by, you'll never get to where you want to go. Playing poker, the destination is obviously the money.

If there is an agro button involved, I'd be looking to c/r most of the time here. Our hand does well against everything but the biggest of monsters. Of course, if others are looking to get in the pot we're probably not going to be in the best shape, but given that no one else at the table is that deep, we'll be committed with a check/raise and just have to cross our fingers.

I think leading with a pot-sized bet may lead to a multiway situation where people are making calls with various weakish draws, but collectively they leave us drawing thin and I don't perceive any real fold equity in it. Definitely a check/raise here the majority of the time I think and of course as Petteri mentioned it's always good for image when we do gamble a bit. However, image is definitely not a primary consideration because I think we can win this hand without a showdown a reasonable amount of the time.

Re: 10/20 flop a little bit of everything in multiway pot
 

I think Buttons check-raise calling range is something like KK**,JJ**,88**,Ac*c**,KJ**,AQT9. Hero is 53% favorite even against that range. But I think Button will fold at least 25 % of the time if not more.

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/s...amp;h4=&h5=