Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

I couldn't disagree more. With an M of 4 he is in under serious pressure. If 88 is 82% likely to be the best hand here...folding is defintely -EV. And that is bad poker.

Our goal should be to win the whole thing...and passing on this chance is not a good way to win one of these....

Shove and accept sometimes you'll run into an overpair and lose....(or AK and lose a flip....or A4 and lose to an Ace..etc ). Don't be results oriented.

It wouldn't have made a difference here, but not shoving with an M under 5 reduces your FE, and still commits you to the hand and that just is bad poker.

It's not pushing from late position with any 2 (with light action in front of course) or Shoving from EP with 88 with a low M. Its pushing from late position AND shoving the 88 with a low M. You should do both if you wanna grab the brass ring.

I do think players at low levels are more likely to call with mediocre hands in these positions, so I like to have a little bit of a hand when I shove to steal short handed...especially when my M is around 5...but NEVER pass on 88 here....its TOO good.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

Easy preflop-push.

If you only raise to 10K and are called, you are going to hate most flops. Are you going to feel comfortable betting the following flops?
Any A + two other cards
Any two higher cards + low card

Probably not. Better to just push right now with the probable best hand. If you had 15BB+ UTG, you might not want to push... but it is probably marginal.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

Not sure what your track record/ROI is in tournies so far, but i can say with certainty that you won't be a winning player if u open-fold 88 (even from EP) when u have 11BBs. I like raise/calling or open-shoving, but open-folding should not be an option. Your posts are interesting, indicating that you are/have the potential to be a good player...now start thinking about making EV+ plays...and quit being results-oriented.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

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Definite shove pre. Maximize FE

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Yeah, this makes sense. It just always feels weird to shove 10+ BB preflop. I'm starting to see how it's not a bad idea though.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

There hasn't been a lot of discussion to stack sizes behind you but this is my biggest reason for shoving with a low M. Guys w/ big stacks can call in pos and play close to perfect against you, esp in the blinds. You eliminate the difficult decisions on flops you don't like, max FE, get calls from worse, etc.

From middle and late pos I think you should shove a very wide range against opponents in the blinds w/ stacks similar to yours. People play waaaay to tight and don't do a good enough job of adjusting their range.

If you are going to win this 88 is a mandatory shove.

Do we shove 44 here?

I would be really interested in taking a look at this preflop overpair equation.......

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

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With an M < 5, I'm personally open shoving 88 from any position.

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This thread could have stopped after this was posted.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

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This thread could have stopped after this was posted.

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Where's the fun in that?

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

This is push. even from UTG on ten-handed table and M=10 88 can still be pushed. Under your conditions this super easy shove.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

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I can't see it being a good idea to fold to a reraise after comitting roughly 1/3 of my stack.

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If you weren't going to get away from the hand, why not just push all-in in the first place? Note: I've made this same play myself, with similar results.

Re: Possible dilemma in the late stages
 

Didn't read any replies, but yes you played this bad, you should be open shoving all in. You people that have this survival strategy are playing bad poker, if you don't have a stack you need to get one, 88 is good shove.