Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

No one will remember if you fold the river for one bet. If they do, you're in the wrong 10 game.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

No way does he fold A5 here.

I think you're cooked.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
full 10. Villain is the indian doc regular at the borg 10, for those who play there. he never bluffs big streets...

but i feel i should payoff anyway for metagame.

anyone disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

SHHE drills it into us - don't fold good pots for one bet. But since you raised the "metagame" issue - Let's question our dogma.

1) We are up against a KNOWN opponent.
2) ALL our experience says he's got it.

What good is experience and reads if we don't use them to go against dogma? I would be particularly prone to fold late in a session. There is no metagame if you are leaving the table shortly.

And even the possibility of people taking shots at you later is something that is equivocal, it can go against you, or you can use it in your favor, too. So I do not see that element as a big issue. The big issue remains more basic, are you sure you are behind? If you are SURE, fold.

I made one of these "sure" folds last week holding a set of Aces when I got bet into as a 4th club hit the board. While I didn't see the card my Villian later admitted the obvious, the only reason he was staying in the hand was he had the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on board already, mine were both red.) and he hit what he was hoping for. I KNEW it. I folded.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

What good is experience and reads if we don't use them to go against dogma? I would be particularly prone to fold late in a session. There is no metagame if you are leaving the table shortly.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

I don't know about you guys, but I'd like my opponents to think I bet with nothing on the river.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about you guys, but I'd like my opponents to think I bet with nothing on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

But if your theory holds true that showing a good fold on the river leads to getting bluffed/played back at, isn't that accomplishing the same goal of encouraging action? If I'm going to be at a table for a while I like showing a good laydown at the river when I'm sure I'm beat... because I rarely fold if I've gotten down to the end. Nothing gets us excess action on our good hands like leaving the mistaken impression that we're a folder..

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
showing a good fold on the river

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i would never fold this face up.

if i decided i was b/folding i would decide before the river came out and then throw the cards face down in the muck as fast as possible.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

I think that came up in another thread. Not advocating a show here in this particular hand.

Re: metagame BET/CALL (payoff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
showing a good fold on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

i would never fold this face up.

if i decided i was b/folding i would decide before the river came out and then throw the cards face down in the muck as fast as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're bet/folding there is no need to turbomuck since there is no showdown.