Re: KK UTG+1
 

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in the first example if we 4-bet are we folding to a 5-bet? seems like the answer should be no, in which case we are making our hand look ridiculously strong w/ 100+bb stacks.



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Is your 4-betting range {AA} here? or non-existent.

Re: KK UTG+2
 

Call, call, shove.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

example 1 depends on how competent 3-bettor is, if he's mucking QQ to a 4-bet we need to alter our line. however any villain that can potentially stack off with a worse hand you have to 4-bet to iso them.

ex. 2 I lean more towards a 22-2400 raise regardless of the villain

ex. 3 i'm not sure about, I think you almost want to try to get more than UTG+1 in the pot. flat call would work to maybe keep the utg player in the pot, but shoving is fine too.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

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in the first example if we 4-bet are we folding to a 5-bet? seems like the answer should be no, in which case we are making our hand look ridiculously strong w/ 100+bb stacks.



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Is your 4-betting range {AA} here? or non-existent.

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depends on opponents, but it's never {AA} against good ppl.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: KK UTG+1
 

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Doesn't flat calling in option one let give a ton of people behind you very good odds to see the flop? That's my concern with example one.

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I don't really care if five more people call, tbh. in fact, that might make our hand much easier to play, given the guy we're really worried about acts before we do.

Re: KK UTG+2
 

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I think PF is not very interesting here. What I think is interesting is what do we do if UTG flat calls the raises as well in Ex's 1 and 2 and we see a flop of 227r


Edit: point being I think we are deep enough to get away from this hand in example one and maybe example 2 as well, not saying we are behind but AA is certainly a possibility and I don't think we should really be looking to automatically get all in here

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I agree with this but we're autostacking on a 722 flop, because donkament players are retarded and QQ never folds (online. I guess it does in a liveament sometimes but whatever.)

now, the form that this autostacking takes is gonna vary a lot because I'll happily just call down his 3 barrels sooo often.

Re: KK UTG+1
 

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in the first example if we 4-bet are we folding to a 5-bet? seems like the answer should be no, in which case we are making our hand look ridiculously strong w/ 100+bb stacks.



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Is your 4-betting range {AA} here? or non-existent.

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depends on opponents, but it's never {AA} against good ppl.

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thats my point. Wouldnt you rather 4-bet more hands than 0 hands in this spot? I mean what does our calling range look like here?

Re: KK UTG+1
 

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in the first example if we 4-bet are we folding to a 5-bet? seems like the answer should be no, in which case we are making our hand look ridiculously strong w/ 100+bb stacks.



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Is your 4-betting range {AA} here? or non-existent.

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depends on opponents, but it's never {AA} against good ppl.

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thats my point. Wouldnt you rather 4-bet more hands than 0 hands in this spot? I mean what does our calling range look like here?

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unless you wanna start 4-betting light here(pretty uncommon spot and metagame is almost always irrelevant in tournaments anyway) nothing you do disguises your hand strength much. i'd rather call cause i think people are more likely to make mistakes post flop than preflop.