Re: in over my head
 

i was gonna mention that but didnt really feel like it bc just getting straight value with pairs or folds when we have gutshots with flop c/r is probably a lot better than the tiny value of disguising flop c/c with A high/bottom pair on this sort of flop.

Re: in over my head
 

assuming button opens 50% of hands and the x is a 2, we have to get owned postflop really bad in order to make folding the flop correct.

That said, this sounds like a spot where it actually is pretty close--the value of "x" matters. Without solving the whole damn problem, I'd guess that in my normal games (I'm a mediocre 15/30ish online player) it would be a bad fold if x<7 or so.

Since I haven't tried to solve it yet, it'd def be best to defer to the experts (who posted before me) on this though.

Re: in over my head
 

fantastic post howmany

Re: in over my head
 

[ QUOTE ]
i was gonna mention that but didnt really feel like it bc just getting straight value with pairs or folds when we have gutshots with flop c/r is probably a lot better than the tiny value of disguising flop c/c with A high/bottom pair on this sort of flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok what do you do when it comes 8-5-2 then with A7 in same situation?

Re: in over my head
 

c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

Re: in over my head
 

wow great topic and posts. Good stuff.

Re: in over my head
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone making sense! lol at c/f. And you call yourselves poo-flingers.

Re: in over my head
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone making sense! lol at c/f. And you call yourselves poo-flingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmmmm, I'm pretty sure he's not referring to the original hand but rather the post immediately above his. Therefore the consensus is still to c/f the original hand. So much for flinging poo.

Re: in over my head
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone making sense! lol at c/f. And you call yourselves poo-flingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmmmm, I'm pretty sure he's not referring to the original hand but rather the post immediately above his. Therefore the consensus is still to c/f the original hand. So much for flinging poo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then the consensus is a girly-man.

(Seriously, though, while I'm sure c/f is probably right, if this guy thinks you're weak, then he thinks you're probably a bit predictable and perhaps would want to wait for a better spot to take your $$ if you play back at him. I'm guessing that given the turn c/r with TP you did last time, if you c/r the flop here, he'll only call/raise a turn bet with AJ, AT, or a K or Q, and he might insta-fold a small pocket on the flop. I open with a helluva lot more than that on the button against a player I think is weaker than I am. It might be worth it to risk 1BB to pick up a 2.5BB pot right now, or 2BB to pick up a 3BB pot on the turn, against his range. I don't know that he has a K or Q or strong gutshot 60%+ of the time.)

But of course, the sane thing to do is c/f. It's not very fun, though.

Re: in over my head
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just trying to understand things better:

Is the reason for c/f the flop because he most likely has you dominated w/Ax (x>7) or he hit the flop and you are drawing to 3 outs?

Also I'm curious about 3betting from the bb. How low will you guys go w/the 3bet?

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For about 1 year I employed the Guifre-HiatusOver-Nomar strategy of 3 betting from the SB against the button with anything A6o or better.

After losing enough to fund a couple days of the, ahem, "war" in Iraq, I went back to my old guideline of A9o or better.

TSP