Re: Still adjusting to shorthanded o8
 

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you sound like whatis6x7 where he
is always 3betting pf to try to get
headsup, but this doesn't seem to
work that often.

Seems to me SH 08 is less about cards
and more about waiting for weak competition/fish.

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I don't know if this is a joke, based on the BS we had a while back, but either way, it's pretty funny.

And I say this not to be arrogant, but rather as a statement of fact as I see it: virtually everyone below 30/60, and most even at that limit and beyond, fundamentally misunderstands SHORTHANDED O8 in a couple of key ways, that you never have to wait for weak competition. These games are excellent at this time.

When you say that it doesn't usually work to get the hand heads up, I think we're talking about slightly different games. If the game is any more than 4-handed, IMO, it plays much the same as full ring--the nuts or 2nd nuts on each side is the winner nearly every hand, and you can profit from playing for half the pot by trapping a sucker between two rocks. But shorter than 4, the game is about eliminating competition WHEN POSSIBLE, or folding if you can't do that and you would need to to make the hand profitable. Many times I've been in a 3-handed game where the button opens and I 3-bet, and the BB calls every time--you just can't shake him. I'm overjoyed to be in this game, because my opponent in the BB is making a serious mistake. Granted, in this particular hand, that mistake probably costs both him and me, but after I tighten up my 3-betting requirements somewhat, and tighten up slightly overall, he's toast. Even better, the high-variance nature of O8 will often keep him from realizing how bad he's playing for a long, long time.

Players making mistakes early in the hand in this game tell themselves that hands run so close in value in O8 that they're playing correctly. Then their bad calls or raises on the 1st 2 streets trap them into coming along with too little equity on the turn and river. Guaranteed money.

Re: Still adjusting to shorthanded o8
 

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From my experience, playing the flop is the most important part of SH O8.


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[/ QUOTE ]Why wouldn't the turn be the most important decesion? The betting round doubles and by then you should have half a clue where you stand.

Re: Still adjusting to shorthanded o8
 

There are a few other ways to squeeze in the 3-handed example that I wonder how you feel about. Both involve calling preflop and letting a losing BB see a flop for 1 bet. First is a straight flop check-raise, and second is a bet(/3-bet) play that can go bet-call-raise-3bet-fold or bet-raise-fold from the SB (1/2 or 2/3) when it works.

Your position is immediately worse, and in many games you aren't getting heads-up a ton, but you allow a bad (not clueless) player to see more flops that aren't very cheap to continue on. There's a large tilt component in this, which may compensate for the big oop pots you risk building to establish an image that attracts loose calls (I assume that's what you're going for: a juiced 3-way game w/ a stubborn cold-caller moreso than a hu hand oop w/ the bare initiative).

Re: Still adjusting to shorthanded o8
 

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From my experience, playing the flop is the most important part of SH O8.


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[/ QUOTE ]Why wouldn't the turn be the most important decesion? The betting round doubles and by then you should have half a clue where you stand.

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Because the turn often plays itself, if you get there. You've often built such a big pot, and so much doubt remains as to where you are, that you simply have to call down unless it figures to be jammed from here on out. But, you will frequently be heads up at that point, so you won't get the bailout of seeing that it'll be jammed. Also, good players will keep from jamming you out until it's too late for you to fold, if you're trapped in a 3-way hand.