Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

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If the past two times he's been on the button it's gone raise-fold, i dont think he's going to decide to 4 bet you light here (i think he'd fold AT)

If we had 3bet the A4s hand and taken it down preflop, then i like 3bet calling significantly more.

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fwiw, i'd like it even less then. i feel like after the first 3-bet, a 3-bet 1 orbit later will make him less inclined to play back because he will probably expect us to expect to get less respect.

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5th level thinking battles? i doubt it, i more think that after he raises the button 3 times and we reraise he jams because stacks are good and we are "playing back".

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

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If the past two times he's been on the button it's gone raise-fold, i dont think he's going to decide to 4 bet you light here (i think he'd fold AT)

If we had 3bet the A4s hand and taken it down preflop, then i like 3bet calling significantly more.

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fwiw, i'd like it even less then. i feel like after the first 3-bet, a 3-bet 1 orbit later will make him less inclined to play back because he will probably expect us to expect to get less respect.

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5th level thinking battles? i doubt it, i more think that after he raises the button 3 times and we reraise he jams because stacks are good and we are "playing back".

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after thinking about it a bit more, you are probably right.

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

i would 3bet with the intention of calling a shov. I thing 3 betting here with AJ with the intention of folding is horrible. Call is Ok... If u wanna 3bet and fold do it with two random cards... why do u wanna turn ur AJ into 23 ?

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

Ok, 3-betting is undeniably profitable. Can someone in the "call" camp provide an argument that calling is even more profitable?

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

i think u should call before u 3-bet because he will fold worse hands and u can probably extract a lot of value from 2nd worse hands(which will outweigh the times the flop comes jt4 and he has jt or whatever) when u hit the flop, or put in a few well timed bluffs. obviously he is sometimes going to win the pot w/ the worst hand, but he's in position so he has an advantage right off the bat.

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

Why wouldn't he be more apt to think that you are getting tired of him opening button so he'd 4 bet a lot lighter over your 3 bet?

I raise and call a shove.

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

I'd really like to hear a solid arguement from the call camp why they think its preferable. My auto play is to 3 bet here.

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

I don't think 3-betting is bad but given the way Rizen is likely to react to our 3-bet I'd much rather 3-bet him with a worse hand and see flops with hands that have so much value but can't call a 4-bet all-in.

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

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i think u should call before u 3-bet because he will fold worse hands and u can probably extract a lot of value from 2nd worse hands(which will outweigh the times the flop comes jt4 and he has jt or whatever) when u hit the flop, or put in a few well timed bluffs. obviously he is sometimes going to win the pot w/ the worst hand, but he's in position so he has an advantage right off the bat.

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After reading this post I put myself in the call camp. Rizen will have to fold a lot of Ax hands to a three bet which is really bad for us.

Re: Tilt 6-max $109, Another Basic PF spot vs. Rizen
 

Calling and bluff shoving (raising) all wet flops and floating and betting every dry one hit or miss is much much more profitable than 3-betting pre, depending on his c-bet % which I can only assume will be relatively unimaginatively high for someone like Rizen and not necessarily on the right boards.