Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

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It's funny how many people, who probably have no way of knowing how successful the 2+2 website is as-is, are so eager for 2+2 to spend money to 'fix' it.

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Not sure if this is actually directed at me or just replied to me via quick reply, but I didn't actually say anything about money. I'm not talking about any real technical changes.

On a related note, when the page loaded for me to type this post of the 9 right sidebar ads I got (still one blank and one unreadable) 5 were for party poker.

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

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Also, you guys deal with a relatively tech savvy group here. Why you'd give them more reason than they already had to use Adblock makes very little sense to me.

Here's some other things that also get my attention but probably not in the way you were hoping:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5...crapdp6.th.jpg

Hitting your viewers over the head with a "look at me!" hammer just isn't an effective way to do things these days when you're dealing with people that don't use AOL email or Windows ME.

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I am not tech savvy and therefore probably do not know from whence I speak , but I am hard pressed to see how the vast majority of 2+2'ers are saying, damnit, another annoying 2+2 ad, time to get that adblocker I've been putting off! If that's the case, how do you suggest Mason gets their attention?

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

Yeah Evan, I didn't mean you, sorry if it came across that way. I'm just commenting on the thread in general.

It's just that every time these threads come up, there's always a push for 2+2 to go hire somebody to rewrite the site. But if I had something working I wouldn't go pay to change it just because some people think it's not necessarily pretty enough or doesn't copy some other site.

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

what's with all the vitriol in this thread??

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

ooooo, i like, will use more

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

kicka, I'm not going to put a number on it but I'd bet the portion of 2+2ers who use Adblock as about as high as any site online except maybe something like Digg that appeals specifically to the tech geek crowd. As far as how to get their attention, I'm not sure what you're asking. If it's how to fix the problems, the short answer is make the ads look better (the long answer is more than I feel like typing but that's still the main point). If you're asking how to get back the people already blocking ads, maybe you can't really make a material change in what's already happened. However, you can certainly slow down the attrition rate.


Neil, this isn't really an issue of rewriting the whole site. The changes are actually relatively simple from a technology point of view. This isn't to say it's an overnight fix, but these are not expensive things to do. As far as whether or not they should actually make changes, obviously that's not my decision. That being said, my take on it is that if your users feel compelled to tell you over and over again that they'd prefer changes to certain things it's probably worth taking note of. Do you make every change anyone suggests? Of course not. Do you just say "Whatever, it works, eff the haters"? That's probably not a real effective plan either.

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

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The purpose of the graphic isn't to look good but to get your attention. So I guess our sixth grader just made it to junior high.

MM

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Hey, trainwrecks get attention, but somehow they don't make me want to jump on the next train.

The fact is, the 2+2 brand on the net is something like out of the 90's when things like the <blink> tag was considered cool (well, by some at least), and effective styling and usability were basically unknown quantities.

Take the green sidebar for instance. For one, it's butt ugly, but that would be OK, or at least forgivable, if it scored high in usability. Sadly, it don't. The orange on green color of the links is hard to read, the way menu-items over two lines have their second line start at the same margin as the menu-headings makes it difficult to seperate between categories, and while the logical placement of the different subforums has been improved somewhat, it's still a mess, especially links for your products (books), authors, etc. should be seperated and highlighted. You DO want to sell your products, right?

Further, there doesn't seem to be put much thought in your advertising scheme. The ads are generally ugly, again something that could be forgivable if their placement was logical and their message clear, but that's just not the case, at least to my eyes. For instance, it would be a trivial matter to make ads for limit hold'em books for users visiting the limit forums. To take it a step further, you could track what forums users visit regularly, and throw ads based on their preferences. Someone who exclusively visits the MTT forums should get ads from your affiliate advertisers focusing on MTT's. Users browsing the sports forum, could get ads for sporting goods. Those most active in sports betting could get ads from bookies. I'm sure you catch my drift by now.

In my opinion, 2+2 need to hire a third party to do a complete overhaul of the site. A half-assed upgrade to the latest UBB-forums just doesn't cut it. You need to change forum software, possibly upgrade your server park, and make a clearer seperation between your products, the magazine, and the forums themselves, with plenty of visible "doors" to navigate between each. And you need a concise and thought-out advertising scheme, as well as put some serious thought into other ways of monetizing 2+2 (the earlier El Diablo thread had some excellent suggestions). All just my humble opinion of course.

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Good post.

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

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The purpose of the graphic isn't to look good but to get your attention. So I guess our sixth grader just made it to junior high.

MM

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Ads like this are the reason that users like me (who love, and would love to support, 2+2) use Adblock.

Just FWIW.

I do leave all of the text-only ads unblocked, but these atrocities are so painful to see even on an infrequent basis that I block anything glaring and ugly. I'm afraid that if I block them, more text adds but with the <blink> HTML attribute will be added, and I don't want to wish that upon the rest of the users. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Rob

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

Blink is highly underrated.


<blink>-Sam</blink>

Re: Who hired the 6th Grader?
 

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but these atrocities are so painful to see even on an infrequent basis that I block anything glaring and ugly. I'm afraid that if I block them, more text adds but with the &lt;blink&gt; HTML attribute will be added, and I don't want to wish that upon the rest of the users. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Rob

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I think you have very little comprehension of what pain actually is.