Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

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What kind of flop are you hoping for when you call his preflop 3 bet? If you can't play this flop, then I think you need to fold preflop.

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Thanks. I'll just fold preflop next time.

Problem solved.

Awesome.

/thread

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Whoops, my wording was bad, sorry if it came off harsh. I was trying to say that you have to be willing to continue (that's what I meant by "play") the hand hitting TPTK when you're making the call preflop.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

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What kind of flop are you hoping for when you call his preflop 3 bet? If you can't play this flop, then I think you need to shove preflop.

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As played OP,

This flop sucks, you are really ususally chopping here at best, I cant see a ton of +EV here. Ill fold this.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

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What kind of flop are you hoping for when you call his preflop 3 bet? If you can't play this flop, then I think you need to shove preflop.

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As played OP,

This flop sucks, you are really ususally chopping here at best, I cant see a ton of +EV here. Ill fold this.

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I'd be more likely to shove OOP, but even in position that's a legitimate option. However, aren't the hands that will call your preflop shove exactly the hands that kill you on this flop? As opposed to the wider part of his 3-bet range that still c-bet this flop where you are ahead?

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

I've found that shoving AK preflop to 3bets is burning money at 50NL fwiw.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

Dis,

As part of shoving AK PF im also doing it fairly often with AA-QQ, to balance the strategy. You do make a point but your equity if dominated pf is >> than equity if dominated post flop.

If villain is calling with AA-QQ, AKs himself to the shove (and people do call less, this is just an example), your equity is much greater against that range at this time than on a Kxx board, which you should be stacking off on with AK in a 3 bet pot.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

Emc - the thing I hate about 4betting/shoving AK preflop is that ppl at 50 tend to 3bet really tight so a lot of the time I found myself against QQ/AK type range. I just don't rlly have a need for that kind of variance. I don't think I've ever pushed AK pre and saw AQ.

I generally don't start 4betting when someone is 3betting me light either because I think I have an edge in the 3bet pots (and more importantly I want to learn how to play them well).

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

there is no way that this sb (26/20/5) is solely on qq+, ak here. i know it's nl50, but come on - hero is isolating a limper from the button and a reasonably aggro opponent came over the top. i'm with emc and will usually 4b/4bshove.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

Well, if villain has AA, KK, QQ, or KQ (without considering a chance at a straight or flush if he was reraising with like some JTs stuff) you are dead to rights. Are you sure this is a good flop? I think its pretty nasty.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

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there is no way that this sb (26/20/5) is solely on qq+, ak here. i know it's nl50, but come on - hero is isolating a limper from the button and a reasonably aggro opponent came over the top. i'm with emc and will usually 4b/4bshove.

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its like 30 hands man. Thats nothing.

Re: 50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time
 

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Dis,

As part of shoving AK PF im also doing it fairly often with AA-QQ, to balance the strategy. You do make a point but your equity if dominated pf is >> than equity if dominated post flop.

If villain is calling with AA-QQ, AKs himself to the shove (and people do call less, this is just an example), your equity is much greater against that range at this time than on a Kxx board, which you should be stacking off on with AK in a 3 bet pot.

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Definitely a good point about shoving AK so that people won't put you only on QQ+ or KK+. But, against QQ+ and AKs, your equity is actually better on a Kxx flop than preflop, where xx are rags. On this particular flop, your equity is terrible against QQ+,AKs -- but of course his range is considerably wider than that here.

Back to a general Kxx board, though, compared to equity preflop vs. a tight range:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

287,667,072 games 0.005 secs 57,533,414,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.763% 59.96% 06.80% 172498836 19557456.00 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 1: 33.237% 26.44% 06.80% 76053324 19557456.00 { AKo }


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

100,980 games 0.005 secs 20,196,000 games/sec

Board: Kc 4d Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.699% 39.46% 05.24% 39848 5289.50 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 1: 55.301% 50.06% 05.24% 50553 5289.50 { AKo }

And, just for grins, here's the result I came up with on this particular flop vs. a 3-betting range that may even be too narrow (he's 3-bet hero twice in 66 hands, but then again he is making the continuation bet)....

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

72,270 games 0.005 secs 14,454,000 games/sec

Board: Qc Kh 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.320% 30.05% 04.27% 21715 3088.00 { 88+, ATs+, KQs, ATo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 65.680% 61.41% 04.27% 44379 3088.00 { AcKd }