Re: JJ with two overs
 

middle pair folds at .02/.04 getting over 11:1? Seriously guys. Betting just sets up a c/r far more often than it does anything good. Yeah pot is big, you also have 4 opponents and a flop that is close to the worst possible, and anything that would fold this flop for 1 bet is a far longshot anyway. So it's not for protection nor is it for value, I'm not sure what you guys are trying to do.

If villain is going to autobet any two cards then c/r'ing is better than betting.

Re: JJ with two overs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Xhad ... I can't see hero's hand as having a worth of 3outs ... if we hit our Js we can get into really big trouble (and the the board will present redraws)

[/ QUOTE ]

You also have a redraw on the rare occasion a J completes a straight and overall stand to make money on the turn if you hit. I would fold though.

Re: JJ with two overs
 

[ QUOTE ]
...may even get a weak Queen or even just a hand with outs against us to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol @ folding a queen or 9T in 0.02/0.04, remember that when Villan miscklicks it is 50% to be a raise.

I think this is c/c 1 (for 2J plus BDSD), fold turn UI, we dont have to worry about meta game or anything else. There is simply no reason to outplay people or manuvering razor thin EV edges playing a game that is beatable for 20BB/100 it just adds variance.

just my 2

Re: JJ with two overs
 

I would fold.

Re: JJ with two overs
 

Interesting input. Thanks. I did check-call and folded the turn when I didn't improve. Now in retrospect, I'm thinking a flop bet wouldn't have hurt (since I was planning on committing 1 SB anyway) and then hit the brakes on the turn UI or if raised. I don't like the check-raise, it's spewing chips and building a bigger pot for whomever has a queen or a week king (or even A10 or J10).

Re: JJ with two overs
 

OK... this is weird. I just had an almost identical situation with JJ. I raised from MP1 and got a couple callers. This time I bet the flop (KQx) and the button calls and BB calls. We all check a blank turn. The BB bets the river... crying call now?

Re: JJ with two overs
 

If by "crying call," you mean "laughing fold," then yeah. If you're going to check the turn with the intention of folding (I assume), then if the river blanks off, that changes nothing. Perhaps BB is betting the river as a desperate bluff, but then again perhaps he's also value-betting Qx.

Re: JJ with two overs
 

I would fire the flop. There is still some chance we are good. Will make the hand easier to play.

Re: JJ with two overs
 

I kid you not, I just played this hand against a big 80/10 fish.....and guess what...MHIG

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
fish calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, fish calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, fish calls, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, fish calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">fish bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Jh Jd (two pair, kings and jacks).
fish has 6c 5c (two pair, kings and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB. </font>

Re: JJ with two overs
 

Well once you get HU against a known fish it's different. And of course you're good some % of the time, but 5-handed I think that possibility is negligible. Also, checking has almost no chance of getting you a free turn in your hand.