Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Where did this fallacy come from? It's been coming up a lot recently. No child is ever born owning any property other than their own body. Yet miraculously most people (in places where governments aren't too overbearing) seem to do ok for themselves. As I said on this topic before all humans are born owning the most important and valuable piece of real estate they'll ever own the space between their ears.

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Evidence that people are doing OK doesnt refute that the claim that they are/would be forced to live by contractual obligations they dont agree to

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Where did this fallacy come from? It's been coming up a lot recently.

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The observation that, where only property rights exist and only a subset of the population owns real estate, that there are two classes of people is not a "fallacy". Concern that this is a fatal flaw of anarchocapitalist theory may be a fallacy, as described by your observations.

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Where did this fallacy come from? It's been coming up a lot recently.

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The observation that, where only property rights exist and only a subset of the population owns real estate, that there are two classes of people is not a "fallacy". Concern that this is a fatal flaw of anarchocapitalist theory may be a fallacy, as described by your observations.

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Fair enough.

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Any baby born into the world is forced to accept the property claims of those who came before him, whether he knows and agrees with them or not, and whether or not they were valid when first made. He has no "opt out" clause. He has no choice. He must follow them, at the point of a gun, held by AC booted thugs (or their children).

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Being denied others' property != being stripped of your own property. You cannot opt out of others' rights.

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At least in a world with public goods, public areas (including private property like supermarkets) are protected by government mandated laws, so he can live a life and travel around without having to pay the whims and costs and profits of whoever "owns" the land.

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What is to stop the government forcing him to pay its whims and costs and profits?

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Being denied others' property != being stripped of your own property. You cannot opt out of others' rights.

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The objection is not that those without land (specifically land - this issue strikes directly to the heart of the objection to territorial monopoly) are having something taken away from them. Rather, they form a second class of humans: those that require the permission of others to exist. Without the permission of others, they have no right to be on anyone's property, ergo they have no right to be without the permission of others. Enforcing strict property rights doesn't directly take any property from them, but simultaneously invalidates their right to self ownership.

Whether this is a practical issue or not is a separate (and I think less interesting issue).

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Basically, intent matters to me.

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Me too. That's why I feel perfectly happy taking whatever I want -- my intent is always a righteous wealth redistribution program (I redistribute from "you" to "me").

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Rather, they form a second class of humans: those that require the permission of others to exist. Without the permission of others, they have no right to be on anyone's property, ergo they have no right to be without the permission of others.

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How is this different if government owns the property?

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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But consider this scenario...the majority own the roads and businesses and money, and as a condition of using them, they require you to pay a portion to the collective.



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How did "the majority" come to own these things? Better not say taxes!

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

OP: I agree the manslaughter analogy is not a good one. Supporting taxes without thinking about the people's rights whom you're taxing is no accident. I do agree that intent matters and someone who believes his taxing you is in your own best interest may be less morally culpable. However I think it was Thoreau who said the people who oppress you "for your own good" are the worst kind of all because they do it with a clear conscience. The road to Hell and all.

Re: Simple reason why I do not think taxation = theft
 

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Rather, they form a second class of humans: those that require the permission of others to exist. Without the permission of others, they have no right to be on anyone's property, ergo they have no right to be without the permission of others.

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How is this different if government owns the property?

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vnh.