Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

What does everyone make of this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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What does everyone make of this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

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Juan Rincon for Brett Gardner.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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What does everyone make of this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

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meh nothing new, yankees have interest in johan, big surprise

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Indications are the Yankees are thinking along the same lines. An organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes. In that case, the Yankees would pursue Rowand to replace him in center.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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n organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes.

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For the love of god no.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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n organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes.

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For the love of god no.

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[censored]

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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n organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes.

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For the love of god no.

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[censored]

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I'm thinking all of this is BS and the Yanks will just wait it out and get him and not have to include Hughes and prosper. I don't understand why people believe that the Twins are that hot on Coco Crisp. Sounds like BS to me.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Red Sox reportedly take lead in race for Santana

Beginning of article states:

"A little birdie says the Boston Red Sox have become the favorite in the Johan Santana trade sweepstakes.

The Twins would receive four players for the Twins' two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, 28.

Others would be shortstop prospect Jed Lowry, 23; left-handed pitcher Jon Lester, 23; and right-handed pitcher Justin Masterson, 22."

Sounds better than Melky + Hughes.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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n organizational source told me yesterday they would now consider parting not just with Kennedy or Hughes, but Kennedy and Hughes plus Cabrera, if that's what it takes.

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For the love of god no.

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[censored]

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I'm thinking all of this is BS and the Yanks will just wait it out and get him and not have to include Hughes and prosper. I don't understand why people believe that the Twins are that hot on Coco Crisp. Sounds like BS to me.

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the twins love toolsy outfielders with sub .330 OBPs ldo

i don't know much about the non-lester prospects, but that doesn't sound much better than melky + hughes. the yankees don't have much else to offer though, at least not in the way of MLB ready talent they're willing to deal.

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i have a feeling that if the Yankees do get Santana it will be because they give up waaaay to much to get him.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

any package that includes hughes would destroy any package that includes any red sox prospects not named ellsbury or buccholz. Pray that the twins don't see it the same way. Hughes and Cabrera together would just be a sick fleecing.

James

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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any package that includes hughes would destroy any package that includes any red sox prospects not named ellsbury or buccholz. Pray that the twins don't see it the same way. Hughes and Cabrera together would just be a sick fleecing.

James

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fleecing in what context - by objective trade value, yes, of course. the twins will receive nothing but a draft pick for santana this time next year

but presumably if the twins are set to deal him, this is the rare chance to get a franchise-level pitcher like this, and part of the gain of acquiring him is the loss of the red sox who might've also done so.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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any package that includes hughes would destroy any package that includes any red sox prospects not named ellsbury or buccholz. Pray that the twins don't see it the same way. Hughes and Cabrera together would just be a sick fleecing.

James

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fleecing in what context - by objective trade value, yes, of course. the twins will receive nothing but a draft pick for santana this time next year

but presumably if the twins are set to deal him, this is the rare chance to get a franchise-level pitcher like this, and part of the gain of acquiring him is the loss of the red sox who might've also done so.

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If the Yanks get Santana they are going to end up dealing Hughes and Kennedy for him unless the Twins are retardo.

Hughes + Melky isn't even close to getting it done.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Hughes + Melky isn't even close to getting it done.

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Its easily enough if:

a. Johan wants to be in NY
b. The Twins aren't as interested in Coco Crisp as they'd have you believe.

I still think Kennedy + Melky + someone not named Hughes, Cano or Chamberlain is enough and will likely go through.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Two things. 1) Minnesota loves Boston. They've already groomed David Ortiz, Randy Moss and Kevin Garnett for us and 2) those guys are likely telling Santana, come here and win baby. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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I still think Kennedy + Melky + someone not named Hughes, Cano or Chamberlain is enough and will likely go through.

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I agree with this sentiment, although the Twins could/probably should demand Wang instead of Kennedy.

That four player package offered by the Red Sox is really really good, and more than I though the Twins would be able to get for Santana. I've heard that Bowden would go over instead of Masterson, which would make it even better.

Here's the thing. If the Twins really want high ceiling parts, they don't need to Hughes. The Yankess farm system is loaded, even more so than I originally thought, with high ceiling type of players. Wang, Cabrera, A.Jackson, and Betances would be an absolute rape job for the Twins, but wouldn't kill the Yankees farm. Especially when you consider they can reload this June. The Twins could sub Jackson and Betances with any number of players and come out just as good, and better in the long run than the Red Sox offer.

IMO, the Delmon Young deal pretty much eliminates the Twins from contention in 2008, so they might as well get as much future value as they can. Put another way, I don't know why they care about MLB ready prospects and not ceiling. A good mix of both would be the best. That Red Sox package is long on MLB ready but short on ceiling. Any Yankees package with Cabrera, and MLB ready pitcher, and a high ceiling prospect or two is going to be a great mix.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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I still think Kennedy + Melky + someone not named Hughes, Cano or Chamberlain is enough and will likely go through.

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I agree with this sentiment, although the Twins could/probably should demand Wang instead of Kennedy.

That four player package offered by the Red Sox is really really good, and more than I though the Twins would be able to get for Santana. I've heard that Bowden would go over instead of Masterson, which would make it even better.

Here's the thing. If the Twins really want high ceiling parts, they don't need to Hughes. The Yankess farm system is loaded, even more so than I originally thought, with high ceiling type of players. Wang, Cabrera, A.Jackson, and Betances would be an absolute rape job for the Twins, but wouldn't kill the Yankees farm. Especially when you consider they can reload this June. The Twins could sub Jackson and Betances with any number of players and come out just as good, and better in the long run than the Red Sox offer.

IMO, the Delmon Young deal pretty much eliminates the Twins from contention in 2008, so they might as well get as much future value as they can. Put another way, I don't know why they care about MLB ready prospects and not ceiling. A good mix of both would be the best. That Red Sox package is long on MLB ready but short on ceiling. Any Yankees package with Cabrera, and MLB ready pitcher, and a high ceiling prospect or two is going to be a great mix.

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OMFG STFU EV EV EV EV

Its all that matters.

Now will you concede that stupid point you made earlier about EV being the only determinant of good/bad personnel decisions?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Hughes + Melky isn't even close to getting it done.

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I still think Kennedy + Melky + someone not named Hughes, Cano or Chamberlain is enough and will likely go through.

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This sounds like wishful thinking.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Now will you concede that stupid point you made earlier about EV being the only determinant of good/bad personnel decisions?


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WTF are you talking about? First of all, if you would read everything I write, you'd know I said you can put weight wherever you want. For the Twins, I'd put more weight than normal on superstar outcomes and zero weight on 2008. When you do that, the EV of Jackson and Betances becomes higher than Lowrie and Masterson, if it isn't already.

Recap; For the Twins, they should put more wieght on superstar outcomes with no regard towards 2008 when calculating their EV. Is that too difficult to understand?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Everything I've heard is that the Twins don't want Wang or Cano because they don't want to have to pay either of them.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Everything I've heard is that the Twins don't want Wang or Cano because they don't want to have to pay either of them.

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Also, Wang on turf will have a negative impact on his effectiveness.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Everything I've heard is that the Twins don't want Wang or Cano because they don't want to have to pay either of them.

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Also, Wang on turf will have a negative impact on his effectiveness.

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True on both accounts, and if I'm the Yankees, I'd rather unload Kennedy than Wang.

If I'm the Twins, I'd still probably have Wang over Kennedy. If they don't want to pay him, they could trade him for more than they can get for Kennedy. Even with the turf affect, Wang carries far less risk than Kennedy and I don't know that Kennedy makes up for it with upside. In fact, Kennedy's ceiling is pretty much Wang.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Here is how all 3 compare to the other starters in the Twins system right now:

Zips projections for next year:

Name/age/era:
Santana/29/3.21
Liriano/24/3.42 (obv. very risky)
Hughes/23/3.70
Wang/27/3.91
Slowey/24/3.93
Garza/24/4.21 (just traded away)
Kennedy/23/4.38
League average - 4.57
Pino/24/4.46
Baker/26/4.50
Manship/23/4.64
Blackburn/26/4.86
Swarzak/22/4.90
Bonser/26/4.98
Sosa/22/5.01

/edited to include all relevant players

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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In fact, Kennedy's ceiling is pretty much Wang.

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according to Kevin Goldstein, Kennedy's ceiling is a #3 (and he is basically already there)

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Funny, looking at those projections, the Yankees have 6 players who project to hit better then the avg. 1b/dh. The Twins have 2. The Yankees have 11 better then the avg. CF. The Twins have 4.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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In fact, Kennedy's ceiling is pretty much Wang.

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according to Kevin Goldstein, Kennedy's ceiling is a #3 (and he is basically already there)

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FWIW, Carlos Gomez (of BBTF/HBT) likes Kennedy's mechanics to hold up better than Hughes over the long run.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

NY Daily News says Hughes is in the deal now

Hughes

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

The red sox getting him for their named package horrifies me, but giving up hughes really scares me.... I don't know what to think

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god dammit

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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The red sox getting him for their named package horrifies me, but giving up hughes really scares me.... I don't know what to think

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what i think is that the red sox have no intention of legitimately trading for santana

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Please don't trade Hughes. Don't trade anyone. Gamble that he'll be a FA and give him the world. Please Cashman.

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Just sign a [censored] 1B. Stop the insanity.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Just sign a [censored] 1B. Stop the insanity.

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Name one free agent first baseman you'd rather have than the Giambi/Philips/Duncan/Minky platoon? There just isn't anything out there.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Just sign a [censored] 1B. Stop the insanity.

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Name one free agent first baseman you'd rather have than the Giambi/Philips/Duncan/Minky platoon? There just isn't anything out there.

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Miguel Cabrera

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Just sign a [censored] 1B. Stop the insanity.

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Name one free agent first baseman you'd rather have than the Giambi/Philips/Duncan/Minky platoon? There just isn't anything out there.

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This is true. 4 >>>> 1

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

i really wish the twins would take wang instead but it doesn't seem likely

the redsox are totally bluffing and no way twins would even consider the lester/crisp deal...i hold off trading hughes until redsox offer bucholz

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Just sign a [censored] 1B. Stop the insanity.

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Name one free agent first baseman you'd rather have than the Giambi/Philips/Duncan/Minky platoon? There just isn't anything out there.

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Miguel Cabrera

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please read before spewing retardedly

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

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Just sign a [censored] 1B. Stop the insanity.

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Name one free agent first baseman you'd rather have than the Giambi/Philips/Duncan/Minky platoon? There just isn't anything out there.

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Miguel Cabrera

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you lose

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

i dont know what to think

i just dont know

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Why in the world are the Yankees willing to give up Hughes before Joba?