Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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But keep in mind that the Lakers and Celtics only met 3 times in the championship(Celtics won once).

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they also had to play against a historically great (and historically under appreciated) early 80's Sixers team, featuring a prime/dominant Moses and Dr. J, among others. + the showtime Lakers, + the Bad Boy Pistons who are better than the current Pistons.

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and just to add to this, for the Celtics to win 3 titles coming out of the Eastern Conference was quite a feat. the Lakers deserve tremendous credit for winning 5, but they had it easier in the West.

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I agree - for a 4-5 year stretch the best teams in the league were Boston, Philly, LA and Milwakkee. LA had a relatively easy path to the finals while Philly, Boston and Milwakkee beat up on each other

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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I have Duncan in my top 5 ever. I think hes really underrated because hes not flashy. But hes such a great all around player. Bird and Magic were marginal defenders and don't belong with the rest of the players you listed imo because of that. But I already went through all of this in the Official Steve Nash thread, so I'll stop there.

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where do you get this stuff? Bird made several all-defensive teams, Magic could match up against any player on the other team (PG, center, whatever), they're both top 30 in all-time defensive win-shares, etc.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

Tim Duncan-10 Years in the League, 7 First Team D, 3 2nd Team D.

Bird-3 2nd Team All D in 13 seasons.
Magic Johnson-0 All D teams.

Duncan is already top 10 in all-time defensive win shares. In his 10 years as pro, he's been at worst #5 in the league.

Bird was a good defender. Magic Johnson was only top 10 in defensive win shares once in his career. He wasn't really that good. Probally has something to do with him playing for 13 years which is a ton in comparison to most players.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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That Sixer's team was my all-time favorite. I think the 82-83 Sixer's team was the best I have ever seen (I don't want to debate this, I know I am biased) with Moses, Dr. J, Bobby Jones, Toney and Mo Cheeks. They won the championship going 12-1 through the playoffs including a sweep of the Lakers.

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i grew up in philadelphia and was like 10-16 years old during this time. i got so spoiled. such a likable team on all levels. it was incredibly awesome when chuckster came to town too.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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But keep in mind that the Lakers and Celtics only met 3 times in the championship(Celtics won once).

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they also had to play against a historically great (and historically under appreciated) early 80's Sixers team, featuring a prime/dominant Moses and Dr. J, among others. + the showtime Lakers, + the Bad Boy Pistons who are better than the current Pistons.

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That Sixer's team was my all-time favorite. I think the 82-83 Sixer's team was the best I have ever seen (I don't want to debate this, I know I am biased) with Moses, Dr. J, Bobby Jones, Toney and Mo Cheeks. They won the championship going 12-1 through the playoffs including a sweep of the Lakers.

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I forgot about Toney. He was really, really good.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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If Bird, with his exact skill set and no adjustment for advancement in training in medicine, played in today's extremely athletic NBA, he wouldn't be a 3-in-a-row MVP. He'd be lucky to be a marginal All Star.

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Please punch yourself in the face for posting this asinine comment.

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Dude, I'm a big C's homer. Maybe he'd be a bit more than a marginal All-Star, but his lack of athleticism would be a much bigger concern in today's game than it was in the early and mid 80s.

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He would still be an insane offensive force although he probably would have been more of a defensive liability. I don't think you realize how difficult it is to defend a good offensive player. Especially one with all the various skills that Bird had.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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But keep in mind that the Lakers and Celtics only met 3 times in the championship(Celtics won once).

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they also had to play against a historically great (and historically under appreciated) early 80's Sixers team, featuring a prime/dominant Moses and Dr. J, among others. + the showtime Lakers, + the Bad Boy Pistons who are better than the current Pistons.

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and just to add to this, for the Celtics to win 3 titles coming out of the Eastern Conference was quite a feat. the Lakers deserve tremendous credit for winning 5, but they had it easier in the West.

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I agree - for a 4-5 year stretch the best teams in the league were Boston, Philly, LA and Milwakkee. LA had a relatively easy path to the finals while Philly, Boston and Milwakkee beat up on each other

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As much of a huge Lakers homer that I am, I have to admit that this is very true. There were some tough teams out west, but they weren't on the same level as those in the East. That's one of the reasons that Magic's Lakers made it to the Finals EIGHT times in the 80s.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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Tim Duncan-10 Years in the League, 7 First Team D, 3 2nd Team D.

Bird-3 2nd Team All D in 13 seasons.
Magic Johnson-0 All D teams.

Duncan is already top 10 in all-time defensive win shares. In his 10 years as pro, he's been at worst #5 in the league.

Bird was a good defender. Magic Johnson was only top 10 in defensive win shares once in his career. He wasn't really that good. Probally has something to do with him playing for 13 years which is a ton in comparison to most players.

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Yeah, Magic wasn't that great. He was far from a liability though. Since he could guard any position you could never really isolate him on a mismatch. I guess you could see that as a defensive strength of sorts. He was never really outmatched, but he wouldn't lock anybody down either. No way he's a top 30 defender of all time.

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

1977 wasn't bad either


Julius Erving
George McGinnis
World B. Free
Darryl Dawkins
Collins...

Re: How good is Tim Duncan?
 

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1977 wasn't bad either


Julius Erving
George McGinnis
World B. Free
Darryl Dawkins
Collins...

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True, but doesn't help in my debate about Bird facing stiffer competition than Duncan. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]