Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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1 question how did this thread get almost 500 replies??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

It's the guys personal decision, and FWIW with all the money that Harrahs jacks from the prize pool, I don't know if I would tip either.

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I'm wondering the same thing. Is this friggin' thread ever gonna die?

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You do understand that even if this thread starts to die, we're just going to resurrect it and have the same thread again next year, right?

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But we get a different 'story' each year.
Hachem was Aussie, and they don't tip down under.
Gold was, well, Gold.
Yang was lured to the Dark Side by Jesus.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

he tiped 122$..lol what a nit

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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he tiped 122$..lol what a nit

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Actually, he tipped nothing, what a stiff.

Harrah's, on the other hand, tipped the dealers $743,886. Boy, that there Harr-ass is generous.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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he tiped 122$..lol what a nit

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Actually, he tipped nothing, what a stiff.

Harrah's, on the other hand, tipped the dealers $743,886. Boy, that there Harr-ass is generous.

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Harrah's didn't tip the dealers anything. They just took money from the player's pool to pay the dealers.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Ever use room service in a hotel? Tip is included in the aount charged to your room, but most people tip the employee again. Why?

Same intimidation/pressure applied to get dealer tips.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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Good. Dealers who think they should be wealthy are idiots. Try going to college and getting a real job. You shouldnt be making $50/hour dealing poker.

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Why shouldn't I? I may not be the best dealer out there but I have a kick ass job that i love and why shouldn't i get paid well for a job that takes alot of skill and knowledge to be done right? Hell just having to put up with players with piss poor attitudes that blame their crappy play or poor luck on me and the cards i deal.....i should make alot more

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Should you make more than nurses?

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Come on David, I thought that sort of emotional arguement was beneath you. Should Phil Hellmuth make more than nurses? Who, where I live, make between 55 and 70k per anum in the median of their field. WSOP dealers are at the leading edge of their profession. The comparison is loaded and unworthy.

Though, as an aside, I can infer from the species of table talk that abounds when I stack up chips and 'fail' to tip at that precise moment that those that play poker as recreation and those that play as source of income, have two very different views on tipping, and justifiably so.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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he tiped 122$..lol what a nit

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Actually, he tipped nothing, what a stiff.

Harrah's, on the other hand, tipped the dealers $743,886. Boy, that there Harr-ass is generous.

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Harrah's didn't tip the dealers anything. They just took money from the player's pool to pay the dealers.

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Yes, I don't see how you can dispute that Harrah's then tipped the dealers. I haven't heard any dealers saying Harrah's stiffed them. Oh, and this $743,886 is actually on top of the the $6.41 per hour that Harrah's was "paying" the dealers.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I can't believe I read the whole thread.

Ok. Some of my thoughts.

Tippers and People who receive tips will never agree on what the optimal or acceptable tip is. Especially when there are many different ways for the player to tip.

Some will try to figure out what a dealer is making if they tip nothing. Oh, you only make 3.61/hour? I'll tip enough to make it 10/hr. Or 20/hr. Whatever.

Some will base it off prize pool. I made $8M, 1% doesn't hurt me....bam 80k!

If 65% of 1.8% of my buyin goes to a dealer pool, have I already tipped $177? Or has the winner gained that money as his tip?

I really don't know. I haven't won big in a tourney, so I haven't faced this situation yet. I just know there will never be an answer.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

My advise to most of you people on here is that you wont have to worry about tipping because most of you are deadmoney anyway! Won't have to worry about tipping!!! As for remarks about computers being better than dealers id hope so but if you want to play slot machines like a computer keep playing them because real poker dealers truely bring random flops and computers are programed to create action,if thats what you want play online!!!! As for Chris saying to stiff the dealers was appropriate, thats his decision and whatever every year its the same dealers are paid decently and usually dnt complain except when a pro such as jesus comes in and says they made enough!, maybe he should know his facts first and it would be ok but he dont. I dealt the WSOP several times and have been quite satisfied with my pay but stupid comments towards dealers is uncalled. The dealers that deal the Wsop work hard and take alot of crap and should be paid for the hard work they do!!!!

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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Now I believe that harrahs with the huge vig every event should be the ones responsible for giving us a bigger chunk

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Yep, and /thread or any new threads on this topic.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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My advise to most of you people on here is that you wont have to worry about tipping because most of you are deadmoney anyway! Won't have to worry about tipping!!! As for remarks about computers being better than dealers id hope so but if you want to play slot machines like a computer keep playing them because real poker dealers truely bring random flops and computers are programed to create action,if thats what you want play online!!!! As for Chris saying to stiff the dealers was appropriate, thats his decision and whatever every year its the same dealers are paid decently and usually dnt complain except when a pro such as jesus comes in and says they made enough!, maybe he should know his facts first and it would be ok but he dont. I dealt the WSOP several times and have been quite satisfied with my pay but stupid comments towards dealers is uncalled. The dealers that deal the Wsop work hard and take alot of crap and should be paid for the hard work they do!!!!

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i said in one of my posts that there are a surprising number of smart, educated poker dealers out there. this is clearly not one of them.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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Come on David, I thought that sort of emotional arguement was beneath you. Should Phil Hellmuth make more than nurses? Who, where I live, make between 55 and 70k per anum in the median of their field. WSOP dealers are at the leading edge of their profession. The comparison is loaded and unworthy.



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? Surly, you jest. I've never encountered as many dealer errors as I have in the WSOP circuit events I've played in.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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My advise to most of you people on here is that you wont have to worry about tipping because most of you are deadmoney anyway! Won't have to worry about tipping!!! As for remarks about computers being better than dealers id hope so but if you want to play slot machines like a computer keep playing them because real poker dealers truely bring random flops and computers are programed to create action,if thats what you want play online!!!! As for Chris saying to stiff the dealers was appropriate, thats his decision and whatever every year its the same dealers are paid decently and usually dnt complain except when a pro such as jesus comes in and says they made enough!, maybe he should know his facts first and it would be ok but he dont. I dealt the WSOP several times and have been quite satisfied with my pay but stupid comments towards dealers is uncalled. The dealers that deal the Wsop work hard and take alot of crap and should be paid for the hard work they do!!!!

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There is just so much wrong with this post that I just probably got levelled. No one could be this dumb.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I don't see any point of tiping those dealers when the Harrah's already taken some percentage of the total price pool for the staff. Those percentage taken out for the WSOP staff is DEFINATELY good money for those dealers already. Why do they deserve more? Dealers don't share your loss when you get a huge bad beat which affects 100K price. Why do they deserve do share your 7 days of hardwork which you have had to managed to dodge badbeats and suckouts (a lot of mentally pressure!). Percentages taken out for the staff is already enough. They shouldn't ask for more! Remember, they can't ask for a share when they don't share part of your loss.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

As a dealer, I agree with David. Dealers should not expect large tips from advantage players, because just like the dealer, they are working also. Jerry Yang... well, I don't know if he considers himself an advantage player. If he does, then he's toked well, if he's a recreational player, who considers tipping as coming out of results, well, he's toked well too, I think once you get to six figures, nobody who realizes they've tipped that much will want to tip more. I won't argue that point. However, when you or I are at the craps table (like I was tonight. Note to self: Plug leak.) or making any bet you know to be -ev, you should toke a small portion of your winnings. There you are betting for entertainment and toking does not affect your chances of beating the game long-term.

Also, form a union. They can't fire you for organizing, only for organizing on Harrah's property. Call in the UFCW, and they'll unionize you, just like they did Palace Casino in Edmonton. If you don't organize, you've little right to complain.

and just to remind those of you channeling Steve Buscemi out there: If nobody tips, dealers won't deal, or will have to be paid $12-20/hr. It's that simple. And just guess where the casinos will take that money from. An end to poker rates, higher rakes, no/less comps. Honestly, the system of tipping is designed to build in yet another advantage for advantage players. Why do so many of us players look at the dealer as your enemy? Also, if anyone tells you to tip, you can reply that you tip at the end of every session in which you're not reminded to tip, based on results. I HATE feeling pressured to toke and I deal cards.

So: To reiterate: Skill is inversely proportional to tipping. Main event dealer is upset because Yang played poorly and tipped like Jesus. This is to be expected because the main event winner is the biggest toke they will see all year, therefore, massive high-variance beat.

Does this make sense to everyone?

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Until you have first hand expierence you dnt no!!! I'm a very good dealer and no the game as well as most pro players!!!I've been screwed every year and dnt complain just keep goin back because i enjoy dealing!! Dealing the WSOP is a great time and enjoy the people i work with and the players are usually enjoyable. It just upsets me how people put dealers dwn like porkypine in this post! , mostly people like you!! That dont know!!!!

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

It takes a dealer or former dealer to make sense of reality!!I cant believe in a prior post a guy said computers dont make mistakes. Them people can stay home and play on the computer because they computers are programed and dealers are not,plus playing in person is the nuts of playing poker!!!

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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I've been screwed every year and dnt complain just keep goin back because i enjoy dealing!!

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I see what you did there.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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1 question how did this thread get almost 500 replies??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

It's the guys personal decision, and FWIW with all the money that Harrahs jacks from the prize pool, I don't know if I would tip either.

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I'm wondering the same thing. Is this friggin' thread ever gonna die?

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You do understand that even if this thread starts to die, we're just going to resurrect it and have the same thread again next year, right?

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But we get a different 'story' each year.
Hachem was Aussie, and they don't tip down under.
Gold was, well, Gold.
Yang was lured to the Dark Side by Jesus.

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I think next year would be...
oh this guy is from Taiwan and he's a cheap Asian so he doesn't tip cuz Asian countrys don't tip anyway [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Am I implying that I'd be the champ of the ME next year? LOL

have a good one guys. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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But we get a different 'story' each year.
Hachem was Aussie, and they don't tip down under.
Gold was, well, Gold.
Yang was lured to the Dark Side by Jesus.

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What about Raymer, he tipped didn't he?

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

so yang by himself tipped the DEALERS alone $10/tbl hour? yeah maybe its a stressful job but almost every job is stressful. and considering yang had a very small % of the gross i think he probably made the right move by not tipping more.

christ $10/hr is a great wage for a job you dont need a high school diploma for...when you consider the fact that dealers seemingly made about 8x that (65% of 1.2M) i think theres really no reason to complain, [censored] $80/table hour is sick good

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I didn't see this but what did the dealers actually get per hour or per down?

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

For the love of pete...............Stop beating this dead horse. I cant believe we have a 51 page thread about this. Same post every year.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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For the love of pete...............Stop beating this dead horse. I cant believe we have a 51 page thread about this. Same post every year.

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I'm normally a very big supporter of dealers. I was simply curious what the dealers made this year.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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For the love of pete...............Stop beating this dead horse. I cant believe we have a 51 page thread about this. Same post every year.

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I'm normally a very big supporter of dealers. I was simply curious what the dealers made this year.

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http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19.../donttelll.jpg

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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For the love of pete...............Stop beating this dead horse. I cant believe we have a 51 page thread about this. Same post every year.

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I'm normally a very big supporter of dealers. I was simply curious what the dealers made this year.

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NOT ENOUGH JUST ASK EM LDO

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Just a thought: Why would anyone desire to the tip dealers for doing their daily job. I work in a auto factory, and don't see the dealers coming to the plant and tipping me everytime their car starts. The statement is always that they are underpaid. Then go work somewhere else - Casinos will then adjust their pay rate ect.... This is why you see company's like PokerTek coming on board - average players don't want to tip...Especially bad dealers - I play at three local casinos in Detroit and only tip two of the dealers I come into contact with - Not because they are friendly / attractive ect.. because they deal extremely efficient allowing the game to run faster; thus allowing more hands per hour. Sorry Dealers - no sympathy here, just do the job your hired to do.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

You actually made a gimick account just to continue to beat a dead f'in horse? This isn't a soap box, now get off it. A mod needs to just lock this thread as no usefull information has been posted in quite a long time and it's the same whiny biching fest every year that NEVER EVER CHANGES!!!

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

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I agree with you porcupine in everything you say here except for applauding CF. Its funny how all these trnys we see on TV whether its the WSOP, after dark or whatever where these pros are always hanging around. Helmuth, Mouth, CF or someone always shows up. Go home get a life you have been knocked out. These other players are man/woman enough to figure out what then need with their own money. We dont see Brett Favre or Tom Brady at the SB when they arent in it. We didnt see Dirk or Nash at the Finals when the Spurs won. Go home pros or get a life and do something else instead of trying to be in the spotlight and influencing others all the time.

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I'm only speaking for myself (and correct me if I am not following your train of thought), but I would ASK CF to come into the room with me if I won. Because he'd be the kind of person I'd want advising me on how this all works. Heck I'd want a few of them in there with me...

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<font color="red"> I dont think i went as far as applauding CF but I am sure he was there only to help JY because he gained nothing by being there and he was asked by Oliver (Jerry's now "poker agent"). I will also add that CF did not at any time offer up advice that wasn't first asked for by JY </font>
<font color="blue"> Just a side thought.....Where and when did these "Agents" start popping up? are they a good thing or more like thoses lawyers that are called "ambulance chasers"? </font>

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I hate to do this since this thread has become crazy. But I can't believe everybody let her get away with her insulting Jerry's agent for no rational reason. From putting the term poker agent into quotations and comparing him to an ambulance chaser (which is itself an insult to personal injury attorneys) she has done (again. Don't forget the construction workers!) what she has so vehemently criticized in others - she insulted someone's profession.

I read most of this crazy thread because it's been months since I've been on 2+2. I was expecting someone to come to the guy's defense. Agents are less popular here than dealers here?

Of course it's obvious why she's pissed at the guy. He invited CF into the payout room and CF advised Yang not to tip. She's not been a good spokeswoman for her cause and I personally think that the % taken from all WSOP events are enough compensation for the staff.

But I want to put in a word regarding employment pay. A lot of people here seem to think that "dumb" people deserve to earn less in their jobs than smart people. What's deserve got to do with it? I will concede that on average dealers are less intelligent than the average doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. In my opinion - and I'm very interested in seeing whether people agree with me here - it is no more difficult for an intelligent person to become and practice as a doctor, lawyer, etc. than for a below average intelligence person to deal cards, do construction, answer phones, etc. But I see all these people like Sklansky implying that "smarter" professions should be paid more(nurses over poker dealers).

Is this the general consensus here? Should people who were lucky to be born intelligent and raised in an environment that fosters that intelligence(neither variable is really under any young person's control) be entitled to both a larger salary and the satisfaction of thumbing their noses at the lower classes? Are medical and law school really that hard compared to digging ditches or doing mind-numbing work like dealing or answering phones? If graduate school is harder (which I would tend to think is true) then what about the decades after? Isn't being a practicing doctor a pretty cushy job compared to blue collar work?

Before people blast me with Econ 101 or basics on capitalism let me point out I understand and appreciate why certain professions are paid more. Naturally the supply of smart, motivated people is smaller than dumb or average people. I'm not proposing socialism here.

But let's not thumb our noses too much at the "lower classes." To paraphrase Warren Buffett - he feels lucky to live in a time where the ability to deploy capital is richly rewarded and valued. But not so long ago in planetary terms he was probably animal food.

If Warren Buffett can be this humble so can the rest of us.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

So after all this, what's the consensus on tipping by a player who wins or finishes very high in the money in a large tournament, where a substantial percentage has already been held out for staff?

Of course it ultimately comes down to each individual's feelings, but is there a consensus here?

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned because I don't have a free 5 hours to read all the posts, but to the people who are saying "just cuz someone won a huge tournament, you think you should get paid extra" consider this. When you take your old lady to Denny's and get a couple grand slams and an OJ, you leave 3-4 bucks on your 16 dollar check. A few nights later you go to the fancy restaurant in your town and you get lobster or duck or whatever and you rack up a nice 130 dollar tab. You of course tip the server 20-35 dollars. Why? All they did was take your order, bring your food and drinks and check up on you once or twice? Why do they deserve 5 to 10 times the tip when they did the exact same job as the Denny's server? If you said because you are at a higher class place or because you can "afford" it, then you're right. Same goes with the WSOP. The dealers there (for the sake of this argument) are the cream of the crop and you can certainly afford it now so shouldn't these dealers get the "fancy restaurant" tip. Dealing the WSOP ME and dealing the 11am $30 dollar tourney at O'Sheas are "techincally" the same job, just like bringing someone a plate of food. Just because one plate has lobster on it and the other plate has a 3.99 breakfast that may or may not give you hepatitis, doesn't change the job duties.

So yes, if you don't leave 3-4 dollars in the nice restaurant, than you should tip big at the WSOP ME.

I know a lot of poker players who tip great in restaurants and stiff dealers all day long. These are the same people saying a chimp can deal cards. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone (that has done both) that thinks dealing is easier than serving.

Also, this analogy has nothing to do with the vig/management/union/ debate. If you wanna argue that they were already tipped, I'm with you. This was more for the people suggesting the size of the win should have no impact on the size of the tip.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Guys, it's been 2 months, let this die. You can start up a new soap box next year. There is nothing anyone can possibly offer up that hasn't been posted to death over the past 5 years on here.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I just threw up in my mouth, just a little bit.