Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Oh, I have no problem with the union's rejecting the Red Sox restructuring. Curt Flood and Andy Messersmith are kinda heros of mine, if you get where I'm coming from. Unlike the other sports' unions, all of whom caved in, got decertified, and are basically useless and castrated, the MLBPA leaders never lose sight of the fact that what they do, they do for tomorrow's players, not themselves. Anyway, that's a whole 'nother topic...

But that doesn't mean it takes collusion for ARod's offers to be lower. Simply put, if the Yankees and Mets are not players, and the Cubs ownership situation leaves them out of it, that probably only leaves 2-3 truly serious suitors. Less swimmers in the pool should lead to lower offers without the teams having to indicate what others are offering, especially when those teams know the Yankees are out of it.

I respectfully disagree that the Yankees will get back in at any level above what they paid ARod themselves this year. It looks like Hank wants to make a point on who's running the franchise, and I just don't see them replacing the Rangers subsidy with their own money, even though they can afford it. And I have no doubt he'll be offered at least $22-23m per year for at least 6-7 years. However, I think there's no way he sees a single offer of $30m per, given the current market layout.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you're expecting cabrera to keep getting better and better, just come out and say it so i can refute it.

note: this wasn't a-rod's best year. or even second best year.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are misunderstanding what I mean.

Cabrera will be more valuable to his team than A-Rod for the next 5-6 years. Who would you rather have, A-Rod at age 38 making $30 million or Cabrera making $20 million at age 30?

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I have no problem with the union's rejecting the Red Sox restructuring. Curt Flood and Andy Messersmith are kinda heros of mine, if you get where I'm coming from. Unlike the other sports' unions, all of whom caved in, got decertified, and are basically useless and castrated, the MLBPA leaders never lose sight of the fact that what they do, they do for tomorrow's players, not themselves. Anyway, that's a whole 'nother topic...

But that doesn't mean it takes collusion for ARod's offers to be lower. Simply put, if the Yankees and Mets are not players, and the Cubs ownership situation leaves them out of it, that probably only leaves 2-3 truly serious suitors. Less swimmers in the pool should lead to lower offers without the teams having to indicate what others are offering, especially when those teams know the Yankees are out of it.

I respectfully disagree that the Yankees will get back in at any level above what they paid ARod themselves this year. It looks like Hank wants to make a point on who's running the franchise, and I just don't see them replacing the Rangers subsidy with their own money, even though they can afford it. And I have no doubt he'll be offered at least $22-23m per year for at least 6-7 years. However, I think there's no way he sees a single offer of $30m per, given the current market layout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. Hank is also telling all the agents, "Don't f with me, because I won't put up with it.".

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you're expecting cabrera to keep getting better and better, just come out and say it so i can refute it.

note: this wasn't a-rod's best year. or even second best year.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are misunderstanding what I mean.

Cabrera will be more valuable to his team than A-Rod for the next 5-6 years. Who would you rather have, A-Rod at age 38 making $30 million or Cabrera making $20 million at age 30?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is it's more like A-Rod at age 38 making $30 million (plus all the extra revenue he's giving you + possible all-time HR champion) and having all your young stud prospects on your team (whatever that marginal cost is, definitely a lot, likely minimum of $30 million over six years, potentially WAAAY more) versus Miguel Cabrera making $25 million at Age 30.

If you think A-Rod has any shot at $30 million, I don't know why you would think Cabby as a FA doesn't have a shot at $30 either. If both were FAs right now Cab would be the more valuable commodity.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Latest in the A-Rod saga. Both A-Rod and Boras are backtracking and saying that A-Rod still wants to be a Yankee. Suuuureeee.... That's why you opted out in the 8th inning.


A-Rod

[/ QUOTE ]

A-Rod opted out so he could have more teams to bid on him. I don't see why this means he doesn't want to be a Yankee. Maybe it does mean that, but I'm not sure why the Yanks wouldn't bid (unless they don't think he's worth it).

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you're expecting cabrera to keep getting better and better, just come out and say it so i can refute it.

note: this wasn't a-rod's best year. or even second best year.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are misunderstanding what I mean.

Cabrera will be more valuable to his team than A-Rod for the next 5-6 years. Who would you rather have, A-Rod at age 38 making $30 million or Cabrera making $20 million at age 30?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is it's more like A-Rod at age 38 making $30 million (plus all the extra revenue he's giving you + possible all-time HR champion) and having all your young stud prospects on your team (whatever that marginal cost is, definitely a lot, likely minimum of $30 million over six years, potentially WAAAY more) versus Miguel Cabrera making $25 million at Age 30.

If you think A-Rod has any shot at $30 million, I don't know why you would think Cabby as a FA doesn't have a shot at $30 either. If both were FAs right now Cab would be the more valuable commodity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I don't think A-Rod has a shot at $30 million. But that's what Boras is asking. That's why I think it's so stupid A-Rod didn't even listen to the Yankees offer. Because they WERE going to offer $30 million/year. I agree if both were FA's Cabrera would be more valuable.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why the Yanks wouldn't bid (unless they don't think he's worth it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Because just by opting how, he cost the Yankees around $21m dollars in subsidies. Even if they signed ARod to a deal that doesn't raise his salary for '08-'10 above what it was under the old contract, that alone adds $21m to what the Yankees have to pay out of their funds.

Of course he wanted the Yankees to be bidders -- he and Boras (or at least Boras) simply thought the Yankees were bluffing. He hubris was such that he thought the Yankees wouldn't sweat the $21m subsidy at all. I don't care how much money you have, $21m is a lot of it, and the Yankees seem to feel the same way.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Note: There's also the very real possibility and the lot of grumbling that Cabrera needs to be moved to 1B. FATTY.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Miguel Cabrera has averaged a mid-140's OPS+ before age 25. This is great, but he is a butcher in the field and will be at first base within the next few years. It would seem he has a serious weight problem, no one is as consistent as Alex Rodriguez.

He's no A-Rod, but if you're signing him for 10-15 million less he would certainly seem to be the better deal.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why the Yanks wouldn't bid (unless they don't think he's worth it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Because just by opting how, he cost the Yankees around $21m dollars in subsidies. Even if they signed ARod to a deal that doesn't raise his salary for '08-'10 above what it was under the old contract, that alone adds $21m to what the Yankees have to pay out of their funds.

Of course he wanted the Yankees to be bidders -- he and Boras (or at least Boras) simply thought the Yankees were bluffing. He hubris was such that he thought the Yankees wouldn't sweat the $21m subsidy at all. I don't care how much money you have, $21m is a lot of it, and the Yankees seem to feel the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

So then you offer him $21m less. Problem solved.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to add, even Rosenhaus (the Super Agent in the NFL) thinks Boras f'd up. And that guy is as cocky as cocky gets.

[/ QUOTE ]
He probably said that because he is really cocky and found a good platform to self promote himself even more

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

The main, if not only, reason the Yankees won't bid on Arod is because they made such a big deal of drawing the line in the sand over not doing so if he opted out.

It is very hard to back away from such unequivocal statements.

For them to back away from that, I think that Arod himself would have to do a huge public mea culpa, or perhaps even fire Boras.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
The main, if not only, reason the Yankees won't bid on Arod is because they made such a big deal of drawing the line in the sand over not doing so if he opted out.

It is very hard to back away from such unequivocal statements.

For them to back away from that, I think that Arod himself would have to do a huge public mea culpa, or perhaps even fire Boras.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, that's why the yanks suck

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Yeah, but that would be dumb. A-Rod will get paid. Boras got him to free agency, which is what Boras always does.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The main, if not only, reason the Yankees won't bid on Arod is because they made such a big deal of drawing the line in the sand over not doing so if he opted out.

It is very hard to back away from such unequivocal statements.

For them to back away from that, I think that Arod himself would have to do a huge public mea culpa, or perhaps even fire Boras.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, that's why the yanks suck

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should the Yanks have to eat $21m just because ARod wanted to juice the market with multiple offers? He had a perfectly good salary the next three years that the Yanks were willing to extend.

I hate the Yankees, there. Always have, always will.

That said, any fallout from this falls squarely on Boras/ARod, and not the Yankees, and the Yankees in no way suck simply because they don't feel like having to replace a subsidized contract all because a supadupastah wants his ego assuaged.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why should the Yanks have to eat $21m just because ARod wanted to juice the market with multiple offers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because A-Rod is the best player in baseball and they're going to have a really hard time replacing his production?

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why should the Yanks have to eat $21m just because ARod wanted to juice the market with multiple offers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because A-Rod is the best player in baseball and they're going to have a really hard time replacing his production?

[/ QUOTE ]

^

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Bump.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bump.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The main, if not only, reason the Yankees won't bid on Arod is because they made such a big deal of drawing the line in the sand over not doing so if he opted out.

It is very hard to back away from such unequivocal statements.

For them to back away from that, I think that Arod himself would have to do a huge public mea culpa, or perhaps even fire Boras.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, that's why the yanks suck

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should the Yanks have to eat $21m just because ARod wanted to juice the market with multiple offers? He had a perfectly good salary the next three years that the Yanks were willing to extend.

I hate the Yankees, there. Always have, always will.

That said, any fallout from this falls squarely on Boras/ARod, and not the Yankees, and the Yankees in no way suck simply because they don't feel like having to replace a subsidized contract all because a supadupastah wants his ego assuaged.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's saying they "suck" b/c they're not planning on making the right move, which is giving AROD virtually anything he wants. 21mil lozlz.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

It ARod truly wanted to play for the Yankees, he wouldn't have put them in a position whether they had to choose whether to suck up the $21m that the Rangers were previously contributing to the contract -- it's as simple as that.

He doesn't want to play for them -- he just wants them involved in the bidding, is all.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

I'm pretty sure he just wants to maximize his earning potential and doesn't give a [censored] who he plays for.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure he just wants to maximize his earning potential and doesn't give a [censored] who he plays for.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're crazy. The guy's pure evil

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
It ARod truly wanted to play for the Yankees, he wouldn't have put them in a position whether they had to choose whether to suck up the $21m that the Rangers were previously contributing to the contract -- it's as simple as that.

He doesn't want to play for them -- he just wants them involved in the bidding, is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It ARod truly wanted to play for the Yankees, he wouldn't have put them in a position whether they had to choose whether to suck up the $21m that the Rangers were previously contributing to the contract -- it's as simple as that.

He doesn't want to play for them -- he just wants them involved in the bidding, is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep

[/ QUOTE ]

The latest is A-Rod wanted NY to offer at least $350 million for him to even bother meeting w/ Cashman.

$$$$$$$$

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

And from a related story :

[ QUOTE ]
Agent Scott Boras said that Rodriguez, who was absent during the presentation of the Hank Aaron award before Game 4 of the World Series on Sunday, still wants to meet with Aaron to receive the honor in person, and would like to donate a portion of his next contract to a charity of Aaron's choosing.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Not including the $21 million he has already donated to Tom Hicks...]

and

[ QUOTE ]
Amid reports that Rodriguez is seeking a 12-year, $360 million deal, Boras said he has yet to discuss specific economics with any major league club.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could be because he is not allowed to negotiate specific economic terms until after November 12th... sick if any team actually meets these demands.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Agent Scott Boras said that Rodriguez, who was absent during the presentation of the Hank Aaron award before Game 4 of the World Series on Sunday, still wants to meet with Aaron to receive the honor in person, and would like to donate a portion of his next contract to a charity of Aaron's choosing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I predict a very tastefully applied FU from Hammerin' Hank.

Seriously, not even ARod can be so arrogant to think he can diss Hank Aaron in front of a national TV audience (just because your agent's about to drop the opt out bomb) and then think Aaron will cater to your desire to gratify yourself.

Okay, maybe he really is that arrogant. Let him wait for UPS delivery of his award. He had his chance to have Hank hand it to him in person.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
And from a related story :

[ QUOTE ]
Agent Scott Boras said that Rodriguez, who was absent during the presentation of the Hank Aaron award before Game 4 of the World Series on Sunday, still wants to meet with Aaron to receive the honor in person, and would like to donate a portion of his next contract to a charity of Aaron's choosing.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Not including the $21 million he has already donated to Tom Hicks...]

and

[ QUOTE ]
Amid reports that Rodriguez is seeking a 12-year, $360 million deal, Boras said he has yet to discuss specific economics with any major league club.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could be because he is not allowed to negotiate specific economic terms until after November 12th... sick if any team actually meets these demands.

[/ QUOTE ]


Man A-Rod is such a douche

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

I'm so pissed DesertCat wouldn't prop me.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Wow, that's crazy. They offered him $30 million a year once the contract was out and he wouldn't even meet with them. The 12 years at $360 million figure doesn't sound too bad until you realize that A-Rod will be 44 when the contract ends. He'd be the highest-paid player in baseball when he was so old he'd be lucky if he could handle 300 AB as a DH.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

BUMP

From Will Carroll's blog on BP:

[ QUOTE ]
Get your tinfoil hats out and don’t blame the messenger here, but a lot of people are starting to espouse some conspiracy theories when it comes to Alex Rodriguez and baseball. If you haven’t noticed, there’s a lot of 3B on the market suddenly. Miguel Cabrera is being shopped, Scott Rolen is making news about his no-trade clause, Mike Lowell wasn’t re-signed by the Red Sox despite many thinking it would happen in concert with the Curt Schilling signing, and Adrian Beltre is being mentioned as an available commodity. Is someone trying to inflate the supply and hold Rodriguez’s value down? If baseball can’t agree on instant replay, what makes you think they could pull off a grand conspiracy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why should the Yanks have to eat $21m just because ARod wanted to juice the market with multiple offers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because A-Rod was the best player in baseball and is declining so why not spend that money much more wisely over the next 10 years to replace his production and more?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
BUMP

From Will Carroll's blog on BP:

[ QUOTE ]
Get your tinfoil hats out and don’t blame the messenger here, but a lot of people are starting to espouse some conspiracy theories when it comes to Alex Rodriguez and baseball. If you haven’t noticed, there’s a lot of 3B on the market suddenly. Miguel Cabrera is being shopped, Scott Rolen is making news about his no-trade clause, Mike Lowell wasn’t re-signed by the Red Sox despite many thinking it would happen in concert with the Curt Schilling signing, and Adrian Beltre is being mentioned as an available commodity. Is someone trying to inflate the supply and hold Rodriguez’s value down? If baseball can’t agree on instant replay, what makes you think they could pull off a grand conspiracy?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't it make sense that when Boras says that a 32 year old third baseman with below average defensive skills who hits like a good first baseman is worth $300M, that every other team with a expendable third baseman might think, "Ka-Ching!"?

Alex Rodriguez - Age 32 - Career OPS+ 147
Miquel Cabrera - Age 24 - Career OPS+ 143

OPS+ 2006, 2007
A-Rod 137, 177
Cabrera 159, 150

Range Factor (RF9) 2007
A-Rod 2.42
Cabrera 2.51

Do you blame the Marlins for thinking it's time to cash in their Cabrera chip? If you thought Cabrera can stay at third, who in their right mind would take A-Rod over Cabrera for the next five years, let alone ten?

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

DC,

I don't put much stock in the conspiracy theory ideas, but I also have a healthy distrust for the owners after the collusions scandals.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
DC,

I don't put much stock in the conspiracy theory ideas, but I also have a healthy distrust for the owners after the collusions scandals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it doesn't take a conspiracy for owners to realize A-Rod will be worth less over this contract than he was in the last. And based on this article, who is left who can write a check?


[ QUOTE ]

The Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Marlins are among the teams which have not publicly ruled out pursuing Rodriguez. Sources say it is highly unlikely that the Dodgers will seriously entertain the possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Angels have said they won't pay over $20M, the Met's hav a better 3B and SS already, and the Marlins are a joke. Have fun in SF, Alex!

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

But nobody in their right mind thinks Cabrera can stay at third.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

david wright is better than AROD? wtf r u talking about

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
david wright is better than AROD? wtf r u talking about

[/ QUOTE ]
Please respond to the person who made the comments you reference so the rest of us know wtf you're talking about.

Anyway most people around here will tell you that Wright is worth more going foward simply because he's a younger player. He may not be worth more next season, but over the course of the next ten (or however long of a contract Boras wnats) he probably will be.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
david wright is better than AROD? wtf r u talking about

[/ QUOTE ]
Please respond to the person who made the comments you reference so the rest of us know wtf you're talking about.

Anyway most people around here will tell you that Wright is worth more going foward simply because he's a younger player. He may not be worth more next season, but over the course of the next ten (or however long of a contract Boras wnats) he probably will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arod will bring in a shizload of revenue due to him breaking all-time HR record making his value much higher than wright's

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
david wright is better than AROD? wtf r u talking about

[/ QUOTE ]
Please respond to the person who made the comments you reference so the rest of us know wtf you're talking about.

Anyway most people around here will tell you that Wright is worth more going foward simply because he's a younger player. He may not be worth more next season, but over the course of the next ten (or however long of a contract Boras wnats) he probably will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arod will bring in a shizload of revenue due to him breaking all-time HR record making his value much higher than wright's

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close at all. Not to mention the time value of money. There is a huge discount.