Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

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The man is busy running oats. Jeez, everyone ease up and be happy he updates this thread at all.

No socks for God's sake!!

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Actually, Assani never showed up on the oat run. He didn't have the guts to do it, or maybe he was too busy planning 101-man onslaughts.

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

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We've heard the opinions. You can bet or you can check. The people that say bet have argued why they feel it's best, and the people that say check have argued why it's best.

Maybe you're waiting for someone to suggest open folding?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't want just suggestions...I'd like some solid debate and argument. Say why you think the opposing view is wrong! Thats how we all get better and learn from these HHs.

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

basically i looked at this thread once, and i refuse to go back to page one and read all the replies, its pretty gay that this thread is still up just let it die. post another hand or [censored] off.

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

You have just picked up a nutshot. Your hand will also be very well disguised if you hit it and potentially be very valuable.

There are 2 players who you suspect may be slowplaying and who have already checked the turn, one was the preflop raiser making his checks even more conspicuous. The only player between you and a free river is a conservative player who seems to be out of his comfot zone and will not be taking stabs into 5-way pots with A-high boards.

Checking seems to be the OBVIOUS play here because there is no reason to allow yourself to be raised out of the hand by one of the checkers when a river could get you their stacks. Your implied odds here seem to outweigh any potential bluff EV by orders of magnitude.

Bluffing into this many players after the A hits seems unlikely to succeed and it may wind up with you having to fold before the river which could be disaterous, particularly if someone actually is slowplaying a big hand. IMO you should be more than happy to see a river for free with your 4 outs.

RIVER PLEASE...

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

i dont like the call at all you can lose more here than you gain not my style late position yes

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

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You have just picked up a nutshot. Your hand will also be very well disguised if you hit it and potentially be very valuable.

There are 2 players who you suspect may be slowplaying and who have already checked the turn, one was the preflop raiser making his checks even more conspicuous. The only player between you and a free river is a conservative player who seems to be out of his comfot zone and will not be taking stabs into 5-way pots with A-high boards.

Checking seems to be the OBVIOUS play here because there is no reason to allow yourself to be raised out of the hand by one of the checkers when a river could get you their stacks. Your implied odds here seem to outweigh any potential bluff EV by orders of magnitude.

Bluffing into this many players after the A hits seems unlikely to succeed and it may wind up with you having to fold before the river which could be disaterous, particularly if someone actually is slowplaying a big hand. IMO you should be more than happy to see a river for free with your 4 outs.


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This is exactly what I was thinking. Why bet and risk being raised and so losing a chance at hitting a miracle card to take a big pot. If indeed you are getting slowplayed then you should take advantage of it, not play into their hands.

Now lets hear about the river please

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

I would like to go back to your preflop call.

I really don't like it oop with so many people to act behind you. I just think that you will have better chances to put your money in.

You are making this call solely on your reads; your reads won't go away in the near future but your cards and position will improve. I would just fold this the first time around.

Steve

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

As I've only recently starting reading this forum regularly, I got through all 13 pages today...

Please, oh please tell me that you river the nuts.

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

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SB checks, continuing to show weakness. The BB thinks it over for a while. As he is thinking he takes a sip of his tea, and I know this is going go sound weird, but he suddenly throws up all over the floor. Luckily he missed the table and cards. I had not seen him throw up ever before, but I did see him burp heavily and kinda throw up in his mouth a little bit once, and on that hand he was slowplaying a monster. So its a bit tough to say exactly what info to take from the throw up. Anyway, he checks.


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Even if the SB has nothing he is likely to raise you if you bet. His reasoning of course will derive from the age old saying that "if a guy throws up and then check-raises the turn he must be strong"

Knowing this you must check through the turn and try to hit your miracle card

Re: Play though a hand with me here....
 

David Sklansky has been kind enough to chime in:

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The reason I'm answering this relates to the fact that he already posted this question AND NOT ONE PERSON ANSWERED THAT THE HAND SHOULD RANDOMLY BE PLAYED A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME. Is this what happens when posters don't expect me to visit a forum occasionally to discipline them? Yes many of the answers gave good reasons for and against this call. Noting what parameters needed to be filled to make the call right or wrong. But no one seemed to grasp the fact that in a no limit game against decent opponents there are many marginal hands that should be played SOMETIMES even if the parameters aren't exactly right. That's to prevent opponents from being sure you don't have a certain hand, or alternatively to give yourself a chance to bust them when they are sure you can't have that hand. 54 suited certinly fits the criteria for an at least sometimes hand under all but the most adverse circumstances (such as knowledge that the button often reraises). In other words the answer should have been something like "I'll definitely play the hand if such and such, otherwise I'll play it maybe one in four times". But nobody answered that way. Not acceptable.


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