Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Career postseason line for A-Rod: .279/.361/.483. Plz stfu. Small sample size as well. Vs some of the best pitchers in the league. Stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

the games when he was in Seattle, the games vs MN in 04, and the first 3games of the Boston04 series don't count

I thought everybody knew that

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

KIND OF LIKE HOW DEREK JETER'S 07 DOESN'T COUNT EITHER

<3 media

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

rbnn,
5 and 6 are the only mildly relevant things.

After seeing David Wright on The Daily Show I have such a mancrush on him.
Jon Stewart: What's it like people speculating ARod will go the Mets taking your job? Aren't you the Mets 3b?

DWright: If the front office called me up and asked me to move positions to help the team I would do it.

Stewart: A-Rod is a cancer and ruins team chemistry agree?

DWright: 52 HRs helps a lot as well.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stewart: A-Rod is a cancer and ruins team chemistry agree?

DWright: 52 HRs helps a lot as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smart man.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Not exactly what he said... he said: "First and foremost I want to win." He then said if the front office called and said that he was involved in moves necessary to bring A-Rod: "He would sit down and listen."

He was impressive, but he wasn't giving away his position at 3rd just yet.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Wright's a better 3b anyway (IIRC, and this feels pretty damn right).

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
rbnn,
5 and 6 are the only mildly relevant things.

After seeing David Wright on The Daily Show I have such a mancrush on him.
Jon Stewart: What's it like people speculating ARod will go the Mets taking your job? Aren't you the Mets 3b?

DWright: If the front office called me up and asked me to move positions to help the team I would do it.

Stewart: A-Rod is a cancer and ruins team chemistry agree?

DWright: 52 HRs helps a lot as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah it was a very good interview

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

TMTTR,
That is more accurate and I just didn't feel like copying it verbatim.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wright's a better 3b anyway (IIRC, and this feels pretty damn wright).

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
rbnn,
5 and 6 are the only mildly relevant things.


[/ QUOTE ]

I will try to be more clear.

The question I was addressing is this: Can the addition of ARod harm team performance, even if he plays well as an individual?

To answer this, I assume a couple of things. I assume that a team's performance depends on the performance of each player. I assume that players have some control over how they perform. I assume that there is a difference between those performances that help a team the most and those that garner the player the most immediate public praise and money. Thus, I assume that some players must be convinced to sacrifice some individual rewards for the sake of overall team performance.

There are many kinds of player performance that might help the team more than that player. Taking many pitches, even if it leads to a 15-pitch out, for example, might help the team more than swinging for the fences early in the count. Spending time practicing defense, rather than batting practice. Simply practicing or training more intensively, or working on unusual plays. Practicing bunts or situational hitting. Acceding to less playing time, either to give another player a chance to play or just to rest, even if it harms a player's cumulative season statistics. There are many others.

A great manager is skillful at making sure each player's contribution is appreciated and recognized. By doing this, players know that efforts they make to help the team eventually help them.

The points I made about Rodriguez all have this theme: his presence makes it harder for a manager to reward other players. There is less public praise the manager can give, because it all goes to ARod. There is less money the GM can give, as it's going to ARod. Because ARod's huge fee and notoriety mostly comes from power hitting, and to a much lesser extent from any other facet of the game, it's difficult for a manager to persuade other players to focus on those other facets of the game, it seems to me, when ARod is rewarded to such an extent.

I agree with you that "team chemistry" in the sense of happy players, or players who are not bitter and snarky, is not directly relevant: players are there to win, not be happy. But team chemistry in the sense of fostering an atmosphere in which each player uses his skills to contribute the most to the team winning, can be important. And the qualities I listed of ARod's - sapping media attention, salary many times that of his teammates, unsportsmanlike behavior, focusing public attention to individual statistics, weak defense compared to power, less money for other helpful signings - together could harm team chemistry under this second meaning.

I am not claiming that signing ARod would in fact hurt team chemistry. Nor am I claiming that, even if it did hurt it, his positive effect on a team would not make up for it. Nor that a good manager could not partially defuse these problems.

I am merely asserting that an assessment of ARod's value to a team should explicitly take into account each of these factors.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

You said the same thing as in your original post.



[ QUOTE ]
Can the addition of ARod harm team performance, even if he plays well as an individual?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer is 'no'. Arod did not harm the NYY chances last year. He did anything but that.

October legacy
 

"No matter where he eventually plays, Rodriguez's October legacy is now assured." From the Onion, http://www.theonion.com/content/news...all_saved_by_a .

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

Latest in the A-Rod saga. Both A-Rod and Boras are backtracking and saying that A-Rod still wants to be a Yankee. Suuuureeee.... That's why you opted out in the 8th inning.


A-Rod

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Latest in the A-Rod saga. Both A-Rod and Boras are backtracking and saying that A-Rod still wants to be a Yankee. Suuuureeee.... That's why you opted out in the 8th inning.


A-Rod

[/ QUOTE ]

This is truly a paradoxical situation for the Yankees. I believe that they are done with him. But by publically stating this, they are enabling their foes to obtain Arod at a cheaper price because without the Yankees in the bidding he most likely will get less money. Unless of course some owner has a moment of insanity and does what Hicks did in Texas.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

In the end A-Rod is assured more money... because he's going to get a long-term contract that even if it is less annual $$ than his Yankees one, it'll be better because he'll make up for it in years. He wouldn't get the same $$ if he waited to become a FA at 36 or whenever.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the end A-Rod is assured more money... because he's going to get a long-term contract that even if it is less annual $$ than his Yankees one, it'll be better because he'll make up for it in years. He wouldn't get the same $$ if he waited to become a FA at 36 or whenever.

[/ QUOTE ]

A-Rod left an 8 year $230 million contract on the table and left. You think there's a team out there that is willing to beat that knowing that NY told him to f off and won't get involved in the contract negotiations?

Fact is, A-Rod called the Yankee bluff and lost. Now Boras is starting to realize just how important having the Yankees in the mix is. The double whammy was pissing off Boston. Now you have the 2 teams with the most money pissed at you. Not Boras's finest hour if you ask me.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]

A-Rod left an 8 year $230 million contract on the table

[/ QUOTE ]

when

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A-Rod left an 8 year $230 million contract on the table

[/ QUOTE ]

when

[/ QUOTE ]

When the Yankees wanted to offer a $150 million extension. They wanted A-Rod to come in at the beginning of the week and talk to him. He opted out instead Sunday night.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Latest in the A-Rod saga. Both A-Rod and Boras are backtracking and saying that A-Rod still wants to be a Yankee. Suuuureeee.... That's why you opted out in the 8th inning.


A-Rod

[/ QUOTE ]

This is truly a paradoxical situation for the Yankees. I believe that they are done with him. But by publically stating this, they are enabling their foes to obtain Arod at a cheaper price because without the Yankees in the bidding he most likely will get less money. Unless of course some owner has a moment of insanity and does what Hicks did in Texas.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. So for the Yankees it comes down to either slighting Boras by assuring all other teams that they aren't interested (and thus, less of a bid-war, Boras & A-Rod "lose") OR act as if they are still interested (even if they aren't) just so that his price goes up which would help handcuff the Yankees competition.

Ehhh, I'd probably take the "slighting Boras" route and declare firmly that we are not a bidder. lol.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Latest in the A-Rod saga. Both A-Rod and Boras are backtracking and saying that A-Rod still wants to be a Yankee. Suuuureeee.... That's why you opted out in the 8th inning.


A-Rod

[/ QUOTE ]

This is truly a paradoxical situation for the Yankees. I believe that they are done with him. But by publically stating this, they are enabling their foes to obtain Arod at a cheaper price because without the Yankees in the bidding he most likely will get less money. Unless of course some owner has a moment of insanity and does what Hicks did in Texas.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. So for the Yankees it comes down to either slighting Boras by assuring all other teams that they aren't interested (and thus, less of a bid-war, Boras & A-Rod "lose") OR act as if they are still interested (even if they aren't) just so that his price goes up which would help handcuff the Yankees competition.

Ehhh, I'd probably take the "slighting Boras" route and declare firmly that we are not a bidder. lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what they are going to do, but it really isn't the smartest business decision.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the end A-Rod is assured more money... because he's going to get a long-term contract that even if it is less annual $$ than his Yankees one, it'll be better because he'll make up for it in years. He wouldn't get the same $$ if he waited to become a FA at 36 or whenever.

[/ QUOTE ]

The same old song...

One of many articles. The deal could have been worth even more than the $250 mil he got from Texas.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A-Rod left an 8 year $230 million contract on the table

[/ QUOTE ]

when

[/ QUOTE ]

When the Yankees wanted to offer a $150 million extension. They wanted A-Rod to come in at the beginning of the week and talk to him. He opted out instead Sunday night.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember this as clearly as I normally do if I heard / read it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Still, it was widely considered A-Rod would get $30mil-plus. I wasn't really sure how, but MLB has a ton of revenue, apparently approaching NFL status. So you figure one team out there would do it.

Yanks are cowards, they really do need A-Rod more than A-Rod needs him though. Wouldn't be shocked to see them back in it; they're really just playing hard ass, not being logical.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember this as clearly as I normally do

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a pretty low standard.

[ QUOTE ]
Still, it was widely considered A-Rod would get $30mil-plus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is basically what the Yankees were offering. It certainly deserved a sit down and a little respect before opting out.

[ QUOTE ]
Yanks are cowards

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? How?

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't be shocked to see them back in it;

[/ QUOTE ]

Here you could be correct -- but it won't be until the very last minute if they are.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A-Rod left an 8 year $230 million contract on the table

[/ QUOTE ]

when

[/ QUOTE ]

When the Yankees wanted to offer a $150 million extension. They wanted A-Rod to come in at the beginning of the week and talk to him. He opted out instead Sunday night.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember this as clearly as I normally do if I heard / read it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Still, it was widely considered A-Rod would get $30mil-plus. I wasn't really sure how, but MLB has a ton of revenue, apparently approaching NFL status. So you figure one team out there would do it.

Yanks are cowards, they really do need A-Rod more than A-Rod needs him though. Wouldn't be shocked to see them back in it; they're really just playing hard ass, not being logical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I think A-Rod burned his bridges w/ the Yankees and the NY fans in general. If he thought he had it bad before, it will be 10x worse if he indeed comes back.

Rob Neyer keeps saying in his blog that it's quite possible that A-Rod just doesn't want to play in NY. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what the Yankees do.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]

That's a pretty low standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably. Whatever gets me to sleep at night, right?

(PS: You're trying too hard.)

[ QUOTE ]
Which is basically what the Yankees were offering. It certainly deserved a sit down and a little respect before opting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously underestimate the draw of becoming a free agent. A-Rod said he was going to opt out from the get-go. I'm sure they sat down and talked about it like... before last year? A-Rod was set to do this in spring training, dude -- it was known the entire year A-Rod was opting out.

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? How?

[/ QUOTE ]

"If you opt out you are never coming back here!" That's a stupid PR campaign that makes no sense for the team. To not even weigh the possibility of re-signing him now that he's a FA is pompous and silly, because, again, the Yanks need A-Rod much, much, much more than A-Rod needs them. Really, without A-Rod (who will they replace him with? Mike Lowell?), unless they magically get Miguel Cabrera (and to do that they'll have to give up one of Kennedy / Hughes / Joba) they have a LOT of work to do to make the playoffs next year.

[ QUOTE ]
Here you could be correct -- but it won't be until the very last minute if they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's their funeral. Either way A-Rod wins.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the end A-Rod is assured more money... because he's going to get a long-term contract that even if it is less annual $$ than his Yankees one, it'll be better because he'll make up for it in years. He wouldn't get the same $$ if he waited to become a FA at 36 or whenever.

[/ QUOTE ]

A-Rod left an 8 year $230 million contract on the table and left. You think there's a team out there that is willing to beat that knowing that NY told him to f off and won't get involved in the contract negotiations?

Fact is, A-Rod called the Yankee bluff and lost. Now Boras is starting to realize just how important having the Yankees in the mix is. The double whammy was pissing off Boston. Now you have the 2 teams with the most money pissed at you. Not Boras's finest hour if you ask me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. The best part of this is, if he ends up having to sign at, say, $22m a year for 5-6 years (probably wishful thinking, but possible if the Yanks and Red Sox stay out of bidding), this makes Boras look very bad and could potentially make it easier for the Rockies to nail down Holliday long term. Hell, Holliday could even dump Boras as an agent.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rob Neyer keeps saying in his blog that it's quite possible that A-Rod just doesn't want to play in NY. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what the Yankees do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is pretty clearly the case, and why the yankees' plan of offering an extension/ not participating after that is a good one.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
You obviously underestimate the draw of becoming a free agent. A-Rod said he was going to opt out from the get-go. I'm sure they sat down and talked about it like... before last year? A-Rod was set to do this in spring training, dude -- it was known the entire year A-Rod was opting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

A-Rod never said he was opting out. He said all summer long that he loved playing in NY and wanted to stay. He said he was going to keep his options open and discuss things with his family and Boras once the season was over. Last week the Yankees told him they wanted to sit down with him and discuss what he wanted to do and they were prepared to start the negotiations by offering a 5 year extension for $150 million. Boras/A-Rod waited until the 5th inning of Game 4 to text the Yankees and say we are out. A TEXT message. WTF? They totally upstaged the WS and embarrassed the Yankees.

There was about a 30 day period from NY's last game until 10 games after the WS ended. Why did they opt out 1 hr. before the WS ended? It's clear Boras and A-Rod were trying to create waves. If A-Rod sincerely wanted to stay in NY, he would have at least listened to what NY was offering before opting out. If the 2 sides tried to negotiate and couldn't come up w/ something by the deadline, the Yankees would still try to make something happen. But he did this in the worse way possible. And now it is obvious to everyone that Boras/A-Rod realize their mistakes because both are now backtracking.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

You keep moving the line...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which is basically what the Yankees were offering. It certainly deserved a sit down and a little respect before opting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously underestimate the draw of becoming a free agent. A-Rod said he was going to opt out from the get-go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just pointing out that the amount you thought he was trying to get was what the Yankees were offering. Free agency is important -- but A-Rod and Boras also knew that if they came to a deal before opting out it would make it a lot easier for the Yankees to justify giving him a bloated contract. The proper thing would have been to sit at the table and, if the offer was not mind blowing, tell the Yankees: "Thank you, but we need to test the market." They took a different road.

Boras did say that A-Rod was going to opt out... At the same time, A-Rod talked all season about being a Yankee lifer.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Huh? How?

[/ QUOTE ]

"If you opt out you are never coming back here!" That's a stupid PR campaign that makes no sense for the team. To not even weigh the possibility of re-signing him now that he's a FA is pompous and silly, because, again, the Yanks need A-Rod much, much, much more than A-Rod needs them. Really, without A-Rod (who will they replace him with? Mike Lowell?), unless they magically get Miguel Cabrera (and to do that they'll have to give up one of Kennedy / Hughes / Joba) they have a LOT of work to do to make the playoffs next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said the Yankees were coward. That was what I was responding to. I think it was played poorly -- and maybe even stupidly -- by the Yankees. I was just asking how it was cowardly. I guess you just used the wrong word...

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

I just wanted to add, even Rosenhaus (the Super Agent in the NFL) thinks Boras f'd up. And that guy is as cocky as cocky gets.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

it's not just about staying in nyy -- i really don't think a-rod particularly cares about playing in nyy if he gets his money, but if the money is the same at two places he'd take the non-nyy one. a-rod had an MVP year in a year where MLB revenues are higher than ever and a lot of teams need a 3B and he only has 3 years left on his contract, when he'd be much older and wouldn't get anything close to a 7-8 year deal. the only thing that didn't point to opting out was that MAYBE the yanks wouldn't pursue... but that's just one data point compared to a lot of others favoring a-rod. it would be downright stupid not to opt out, esp considering the yanks will end up having no choice re-entering the bidding for a-rod if they want to be any good.

i'd place my trust in boras too. he always gets the money. cash dollar bills homey.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
it's not just about staying in nyy -- i really don't think a-rod particularly cares about playing in nyy if he gets his money, but if the money is the same at two places he'd take the non-nyy one. a-rod had an MVP year in a year where MLB revenues are higher than ever and a lot of teams need a 3B and he only has 3 years left on his contract, when he'd be much older and wouldn't get anything close to a 7-8 year deal. the only thing that didn't point to opting out was that MAYBE the yanks wouldn't pursue... but that's just one data point compared to a lot of others favoring a-rod. it would be downright stupid not to opt out, esp considering the yanks will end up having no choice re-entering the bidding for a-rod if they want to be any good.

i'd place my trust in boras too. he always gets the money. cash dollar bills homey.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you are making a mistake. Boras is counting on this as well. You are forgetting it's the Yankees. They have resourses other teams don't. Don't be surprised if it's Cabrera. The Yankees did fine w/o A-Rod for 100+ years. They won a WS with Charlie Hayes and Scott Brosius. They will be fine.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

How? It's easy to talk fluff, but how? With A-Rod, the Yanks were definitively better than the Tigers. Now? Probably not. If they get Cabrera, they have to give up one of their expected young stud starters... and they have a problem right there. And it's compounded since Cabrera isn't as good as A-Rod anyway. How are they going to replace A-Rod's ~13 wins?

A-Rod has the Phillies, Dodgers, Angels... maybe even the Padres. He'll get more than enough money. I highly doubt he's worried. The Yanks are the desperate ones.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
And it's compounded since Cabrera isn't as good as A-Rod anyway. How are they going to replace A-Rod's ~13 wins?

A-Rod has the Phillies, Dodgers, Angels... maybe even the Padres. He'll get more than enough money. I highly doubt he's worried. The Yanks are the desperate ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

O RLLY?

CAREER AVERAGES
BA OBP SLG OPS
Rodriguez .306 .389 .578 .967
Cabrera .313 .388 .542 .930


THROUGH AGE 24
BA OBP SLG OPS HR RBI
Rodriguez .308 .363 .551 .916 148 463
Cabrera .313 .388 .542 .930 138 523

Hmmm.. Considering one is younger by about 7-8 years, I'd take the younger cheaper one.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

07 EqA:

A-Rod: .340
M-Cab: .321

yarly.

Cabrera's the better long-term signing, but Cabrera as a FA... We should be talking 250 million minimum as well. He should -- if market economics are proper -- make more than A-Rod as a FA, really, since he's younger.

Toss in the extra hole you're creating by ditching one of your young cheap good starters (average FA price for a league average starter: $10-11 mil, 4-5 years), and it's not that close. Re-signing A-Rod is more +EV for the Yanks than trading and then giving Cabrera a gigantic contract.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
07 EqA:

A-Rod: .340
M-Cab: .321

yarly.

Cabrera's the better long-term signing, but Cabrera as a FA... We should be talking 250 million minimum as well. He should -- if market economics are proper -- make more than A-Rod as a FA, really, since he's younger.

Toss in the extra hole you're creating by ditching one of your young cheap good starters (average FA price for a league average starter: $10-11 mil, 4-5 years), and it's not that close. Re-signing A-Rod is more +EV for the Yanks than trading and then giving Cabrera a gigantic contract.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice; you used a career year by A-Rod to make it look good. What are both players career Eqa's at age 24? I bet it's pretty close.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

if you're expecting cabrera to keep getting better and better, just come out and say it so i can refute it.

note: this wasn't a-rod's best year. or even second best year.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

I suspect every owner in MLB is hoping the Yankees sit out, even if they don't plan on pursuing ARod themselves.

Think about it -- he's wanting $30m a year for 7-8 years, or something like that. It is unlikely, but very possible, that the number of teams actually pursuing him result in nobody offering him *that* much, and he'll have to settle for something more akin to what he's making now, or even a bit less.

Remember, in the time since he signed that deal, to this day no other deal has matched or exceeded it -- it was that far above the rest of market. If he actually ends up having to take a deal that's no better than his current deal, it will allow owners to price other contracts below it, because he does have the best numbers of anyone out there.

The union was pissed at ARod for being willing to rework the deal with Boston, and they should be pissed at him now for pushing the Yankees away.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

it's too bad that doesn't work as long as people are paying $19 million a year for barry zito.

Re: A-Rod opts out of contract
 

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect every owner in MLB is hoping the Yankees sit out, even if they don't plan on pursuing ARod themselves.

Think about it -- he's wanting $30m a year for 7-8 years, or something like that. It is unlikely, but very possible, that the number of teams actually pursuing him result in nobody offering him *that* much, and he'll have to settle for something more akin to what he's making now, or even a bit less.

Remember, in the time since he signed that deal, to this day no other deal has matched or exceeded it -- it was that far above the rest of market. If he actually ends up having to take a deal that's no better than his current deal, it will allow owners to price other contracts below it, because he does have the best numbers of anyone out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he falls well below the $30 million level (which I doubt will happen), the Yankees will step back in. I can almost guarantee you that.

Although, the problem in baseball is you don't really know what other teams are offering. You rely on what the agent tells you. That is what Boras takes advantage of.

AND if you talk to the other teams and try to share information the evil "C" word returns -- collusion.

[ QUOTE ]
The union was pissed at ARod for being willing to rework the deal with Boston, and they should be pissed at him now for pushing the Yankees away.

[/ QUOTE ]

The union had the right to approve or reject any restructuring of a contract -- and A-Rod's accepting materially lower compensation could have effected the treatment of other players making far less. The Union does not have the right to say anything about how A-Rod acts within the terms of the contract.