Two Plus Two Newer Archives - We Are All Sinners With Free Will?

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He knows full well that people with other views claim Biblical support and simply disagree with him on what he claims the Bible "plainly" says on these things.

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because you can't deny it. Then you go on to say I'm making the observation out of a lack of love. Maybe you should spend some time looking at yourself.

PairTheBoard

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because you can't deny it. Then you go on to say I'm making the observation out of a lack of love. Maybe you should spend some time looking at yourself.

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Oh my, this is so childish.
I found a religion for you PairTheBoard, the Bahai Faith.
I wish you wouldn't confuse people by talking about what Jesus really meant to say and how no one truly understands his perfect message of love except you.

The truth is, you believe Jesus was a misguided human who spoke a good lot of [censored]. You are clearly not one of his followers but someone who wants to make your own religion, this speaks nothing of intellectual honesty. The Bahá'í Faith seems like a very well 'designed' religion if that's what you are looking for.

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Actually I had you in mind among others when I referred to "people" in the first quote you gave above. Do you think Reformed Calvinists are the only ones who agree with what the Bible "plainly" says? Anyone who disagree's with NR on the Issue being discussed does so because they disagree with what the Bible "plainly" says?

The Issue being discussed went back to NR's post were he said,

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John 6:
65And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
67So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
68Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

Jesus had just conveyed a "hard" doctrine - the inability of man to be accepted by God on his own merit. This also involves the doctrines of election and predestination. Because of this hard doctrine, many of the disciples abandoned Jesus, probably because they thought it was irrational and also bruised their pride. No doubt these thoughts also occurred to Peter. But when pressed by Jesus, I believe Peter considered the alternative. "Will I now return to Judaism? What about Plato and Aristotle? I could turn Epicurean." But only Jesus had "words of eternal life". No matter how difficult to understand and accept what He was saying, there was simply no attractive alternative.

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So if you do not accept this "hard" Calvinist doctrine of predestination and Election you are not just disagreeing with NR and the Calvinists, you are disagreeing with what the Bible "plainly" says. You are saying the Bible is wrong. And if you reject this hard doctrine you are rejecting Jesus. You are like those in the scripture quoted who "withdrew and were no longer walking with Jesus". And by rejecting Jesus you cannot be saved.

Sklansky pressed NR on this point:

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But you still didn't respond to my question about what is the fate of someone who thinks his total disbelief in Jesus is pleasing to God.

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The Bible is clear that if you reject Christ you can't be saved.

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Sklansky pressed further:
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And that includes those who think they are doing God's will with that rejection? They have zero chance? I'm guessing 90% of the world disagrees with you. 98% of those with IQs over 150. And 80% of those who call themselves Christian.

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I don't think it's a democracy.

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and again,

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Tell me what qualifications you have to be so sure you are right and they are wrong.

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I can read.

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Sklansky then asked if by "I can read" NR meant,

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Even if you are correct David about the number of people who disagree with this doctrine, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Bible plainly says it. Those people who think the doctrine isn't true, are saying that (on this issue anyway) the Bible isn't true. They aren't claiming its actually not in there.

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NotReady replied, "Yes"

It was at this point I could not resist pointing out that position of NR was both arrogant and disingeneous as he knows full well there are many in Christianity who disagree with him and his "hard" Calvinist doctines Not because they say the Bible is wrong but because they don't believe it says what NotReady proclaims it "plainly" says.

Now You're Jumping in and saying I was childish to make such an observation? You jump in and claim I only made it to support My particular View which you now condemn as Bahai rather than Christian. Do you see where I called anyone names? Do you see where I called anyone a "jerk"? Do you see where I referred to anyone's thoughts as "filth"? That's how NotReady responded. But I'm the one that's being childish?

ok. Have it your way. But be careful what you say to NR. If he doesn't like the way you disagree with him you may find yourself being called a "jerk" and your thoughts labeled "filth" by the expert on loving replies, NotReady.

PairTheBoard