Re: stop using our words for your capitalist pig theories!
 

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When ASists say "property is theft" they (usually) only mean land. Pretty much anytime you hear someone say "property is theft" you're better off making that assumption.

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Actually, I would say they usually mean any ownership the means of production, just as other varieties of socialism do. certainly owning land and renting it out to make a profit off of nothing other than the fact that you own land and someone else needs land is part of that.

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What is a "means of production"? A typewriter? A pencil? My brain?

Re: stop using our words for your capitalist pig theories!
 

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If a person or committee could decide to, say, take your toothbrush without your consent you wouldn't be living in a libertarian society, you'd be living in an authoritarian one

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But when the committee decides to take your land, it's not authoritarian?

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I -mostly- agree with you. Certainly a group of people could decide, in an egalitarian way, that having expectations of permanent possession of certain items is a good thing.

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So which items, and what differentiates them from the items for which possession is "not good"?

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However, by being part a voluntary part of the community, you agree that you are going to make these decisions collectively through some sort of egalitarian participatory decision making process, not by individual ownership of something.

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OK, what if I don't want to be part of the community? If this is all really voluntary, then nobody can possibly have a problem with it.

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So for example you live on a collective farm. You use part of this farm for your sculpting. The light is perfect, you have all your sculpting tools arranged right and the place just feels special to you. No one is interested in taking anything away from you and in fact you have a meeting where you express the fact that actually, the place is so special to you, that you don't ever want anyone else in the community to go there. Perhaps some people object and you reach a mutual decision along the lines of no one will go there without talking to you about why they need to go there first and it works. or it doesn't and you have to come to some other mutual decision.

but a few years go by and for some reason this particular piece of land is really needed by the community. And its brought up at a meeting. now presumably you are a rational person. and presumably you find the benefits of your communal arrangement to be good for you. and so, obviously, you are concerned about the wellbeing of the community and your respect the other community members.

so you have a discussion about it and in the end agree that the community needs to use this land in another way and though you're not happy about moving your studio to the barn, you agree to it because you're a rational person that wants what's best for the community and the other members of the community have presented a compelling case for why this is necessary.

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Right. Everyone's happy and there are puppies and bunnies. The system works just swell when everyone agrees. But what happens if you DON'T agree?

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no committees are forcing people to submit to their demands! people are collectively making decisions about things that affect their lives.

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These two are not mutually exclusive! What happens when one disagrees with the collective? Or is this some "tacit consent" BS?

Re: stop using our words for your capitalist pig theories!
 

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In this case, if there are 20 of us living in an area and you and 3 of your friends declare that you now "own" the only viable source of water in the area,

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Well, decree doesn't confer a property right.

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Nope, good ol' fashion force does.

Re: stop using our words for your capitalist pig theories!
 

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In this case, if there are 20 of us living in an area and you and 3 of your friends declare that you now "own" the only viable source of water in the area,

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Well, decree doesn't confer a property right.

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Nope, good ol' fashion force does.

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Really? If I hit you over the head and take your ball, I obtain a property right in it?

Re: stop using our words for your capitalist pig theories!
 

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In this case, if there are 20 of us living in an area and you and 3 of your friends declare that you now "own" the only viable source of water in the area,

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Well, decree doesn't confer a property right.

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Nope, good ol' fashion force does.

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Really? If I hit you over the head and take your ball, I obtain a property right in it?

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If you're physically more powerful than I and socially more powerful (courts and society at large will recognize your ownership), what's to say you don't have de facto property rights? They're just a social construct anyhow.