Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

It is very difficult, in general, to predict the jail time for federal cases at the indictment stage. There are too many factors that must be taken into account. Among other things, the sentence could be increased if Bonds testifies. (In our wonderful federal system, testifying that you did not commit the crime at your own trial can result in an enhancement under the sentencing guidelines.)

In any event, the predictions of 30 years are absolutely absurd. If I had to guess, I'd predict somewhere in the 8-24 month range.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which is completely ridiculous. All signs point to Barry Bonds being less of a [censored] then Kirby Puckett who is still probably the most beloved athlete here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kirby smiled to the cameras and was pleasant to all the fans. The one major knock on him was that sexual assault case that he was tried for - and subsequently acquitted.

I wouldn't say there's a whole lot saying Kirby's a bigger [censored] than Bonds. Was Kirby a saint? Probably not, but he never did much to discredit his public image.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that he had a great public image and a [censored] up private life.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...11/si_puckett/

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Teams like , Minnesota, , and the like don't win throwing money at players they can't do anything with in a long run.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Twins at least, win because and in spite of doing this.

Because of:
Jack Morris
Shane Mack
Chili Davis

In spite of:
Tony Batista
Rondell White
Jeff Cirillo
Rubén Sierra
Ramon Ortiz
Sidney Ponson
etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

They've made plenty of bad moves, but they've always been able to cut ties with those guys without getting totally dragged down. The core of the team is guys like Morneau, Mauer, Santana, Hunter...the guys they developed and made into powerhouses. Especially Santana, who was the Rule 5 pickup of all time.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even before the indictment, I don't believe there were many teams interested. Oakland was the only team I ever heard mentioned. And he's just not productive enough anymore to merit the backlash.


[/ QUOTE ]

The guy is still an awesome hitter, he's just hurt a lot. Maybe mere excellence isn't good enough--I actually don't think it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittedly, I didn't watch him at all last year. But isn't it true that he's basically limited to DH now? If so, would you really expect his production to be better than the average DH?

I don't even follow the American League, so I really don't know.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

It seems silly to debate if Barry's an [censored] or not. If pressed, yeah, he's an [censored], and that means nothing long run in terms of where he fits in on a team.

If the M's signed Barry and stuck him at DH for 150 games and let him mash, I would probably spend the whole season walking funny to hide my erection.

(actually not true, because it would make sports radio unlistenable and then I would have to listen to NPR again and care about politics and then I would be SAD).

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which is completely ridiculous. All signs point to Barry Bonds being less of a [censored] then Kirby Puckett who is still probably the most beloved athlete here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kirby smiled to the cameras and was pleasant to all the fans. The one major knock on him was that sexual assault case that he was tried for - and subsequently acquitted.

I wouldn't say there's a whole lot saying Kirby's a bigger [censored] than Bonds. Was Kirby a saint? Probably not, but he never did much to discredit his public image.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that he had a great public image and a [censored] up private life.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...11/si_puckett/

[/ QUOTE ]

Plenty of rumors, much like Kim Bell, the IRS, etc.

None of us actually know these guys, and all we have to go on is what we see on TV, read in magazines, etc. Kirby was at least outwardly personable. That's really all there is.

Could he have been a giant douche in private? Sure. All we have on either of those guys in private is speculation and rumors from "ex" women in their lives.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

3. The only thing baseball would have against Bonds is that he pleaded no contest to perjury, etc. Otherwise, the issue of whether Bonds "cheated" has never been adjudicated in any venue where baseball has jurisdiction to claim Bonds cheated.
4. This means that baseball would have no basis for touching any of Bonds' records because he is, and never will be (at least absent any further proceedings) found a cheater.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't vouch for whether he is able to plea "no contest" or not -- I don't think he can. If he can, that plea may bar the government from using it against him in a court of law (I am not even sure of that), but certainly nothing bars a private organization (major league baseball) from relying on that plea and considering it an admission. Baseball can rely on whatever they want -- a private investigation, a public trial or the flip of a coin -- to adjust what they consider "official records".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with your take on the effect of the no contest, but I really don't know enough about it to say you are incorrect.

As for baseball taking away Bonds' records: Yes, you are certainly correct as the commissioner can act "in the best interests of the game." My point (or idea, really) concerned whether a basis outside of that clause exists. At this time, I don't know one way or another.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Barry Bonds when healthy was the best hitter in baseball last year.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which is completely ridiculous. All signs point to Barry Bonds being less of a [censored] then Kirby Puckett who is still probably the most beloved athlete here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kirby smiled to the cameras and was pleasant to all the fans. The one major knock on him was that sexual assault case that he was tried for - and subsequently acquitted.

I wouldn't say there's a whole lot saying Kirby's a bigger [censored] than Bonds. Was Kirby a saint? Probably not, but he never did much to discredit his public image.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that he had a great public image and a [censored] up private life.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...11/si_puckett/

[/ QUOTE ]

Plenty of rumors, much like Kim Bell, the IRS, etc.

None of us actually know these guys, and all we have to go on is what we see on TV, read in magazines, etc. Kirby was at least outwardly personable. That's really all there is.

Could he have been a giant douche in private? Sure. All we have on either of those guys in private is speculation and rumors from "ex" women in their lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my point. What I've read about Puckett's private life is more disturbing then Bonds'. Not that what I've read about either is true, but the allegations are more disturbing. Yet, because Puckett smiled and waved to the cameras and Bonds shunned the media, Puckett is a saint and Bonds is the devil.

/edit Puckett was my hero growing up. I was 4 the first time the Twins won the world series and 9 the second time. His retirement press conference was probably the last time I cried about anything. I'm not trying to dick on him, just pointing out how much influence the media has.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
^^^^ what Oski said. this originally wasn't about trying to get Bonds...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very very wrong. Jeff Nowitzky had a major hard on for Bonds ever since Bonds broke Mcwire's single season hr record.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
Niss/TM/Oski/etc.
Do you think Lance Williams and Mark Faindru-Wada should be in jail for obstruction of justice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

[/ QUOTE ]

how [censored] naive are you?

barry bonds isn't getting busted cuz he used steroids, he's getting busted cuz he lied.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I think I said that. How [censored] illiterate are you?

Of course the Bonds story sends a mixed message on steroids, but a conviction, a few months in jail and one of the best players in baseball shunned by MLB and the HOF as a cheater is an appropriate ending to the tale.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months in jail? Bonds is facing 30 years. After lying to the feds, do you really think they will plea bargain and let him spend 3 or 4 months in the can? LOL.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Im sure all u haterz are happy. Screw baseball. If Bonds didnt break the record this would be goin on. I didnt hear a big hype when Neifi Perez went down for steroids or any of these other nits. hell check AROD he hits [censored] loads of HRs. Anyways its steroids its not like these guys were smoking crack or some [censored]! Hell roids werent even illegal in baseball then. Flame away!

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

What odds will you give me on under 3 months?

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not that it means much but:

Anderson's attorney, Mark Geragos, said the trainer didn't cooperate with the grand jury that indicted Bonds.

"This indictment came out of left field," Geragos said. "Frankly I'm aghast. It looks like the government misled me and Greg as well, saying this case couldn't go forward without him."

[/ QUOTE ]

... and just before he was about to move to DH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, missed this the first time around. Nice.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
A few months in jail? Bonds is facing 30 years. After lying to the feds, do you really think they will plea bargain and let him spend 3 or 4 months in the can? LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is not facing 30 years. Do you believe everything TV anchors tell you?

It really is not up to the prosecutors if he is convicted and he cannot serve 30 years. You can't just add the maxium sentences for the individual offenses. There are guidelines that the judge is required to follow and they are very complex. Based on what we know now, I would estimate (as others have) that Bonds could face as little as 6 months and no more than 5 years if convicted on all counts. (Generally, federal sentences for nonviolent crimes run concurrently and not consecutively)

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Niss/TM/Oski/etc.
Do you think Lance Williams and Mark Faindru-Wada should be in jail for obstruction of justice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did they "obstruct justice"?

When they refused to name their source, they were in contempt and could have been locked up; but then their source came forward and they could no longer be held in contempt.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
BTW lol at people not wanting Bonds on your team in that poll. I guess you don't want your team to win

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's because Bonds' last few Giants teams were such winners?

Look, if you're some AL GM who wants to sign Bonds as a DH, have at it. But, as the Michael Vick situtation has shown, there's far more to having someone under federal indictment on your roster than potential wins and losses. First and foremost, a major league club is a business. There are attendance and merchandising issues to consider.

Even before the indictment, there were very few teams in the Bonds market. He's a defensive liability at this point, probably won't play more than 120 games, and would hardly take a market value contract for a player who is such position-limited and league-limited. His pride won't let him take a $3m deal to be a 1/2 to 3/4 time DH, and no team is going to pay him $10m a year at this point.

So then, you have to look at the few teams that are actually just an "expected Bonds-production" away from being a champion. The Sox don't need him. The Yanks don't need him. Really, the only team that can afford him and use him. Any marketing value of him breaking Aaron's record passed when he actually broke Aaron's record.

Even if there was no indictment on the horizon, there was at least a reasonable chance Bonds doesn't play in '08, given factors that have absolutely nothing to do with 'roids or perjury.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
That was obviously kinda sarcastic in that the idea presented by Pudge was "OMG, you don't want your team to optimize winning by signing Bonds?!"

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I finally figured out the tone--I was lost for a while because it's sarcastic, but not THAT scarcastic, and...forget it. I am going to try to stop thinking about Bonds for a while so that I don't get tired of him until later.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
Which is completely ridiculous. All signs point to Barry Bonds being less of a [censored] then Kirby Puckett who is still probably the most beloved athlete here.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL at "all signs". Let's see, he's already acknowledged affairs outside of marriage, aren't there allegations of hush money? There are at least some signs of perjury, obstruction of justice, roid use, possible tax fraud....(I'm not saying any are proven)

Kirby Puckett was no saint, clearly.

But your statement puts the ass in asinine, really.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the fact that the govt. spent millions of taxpayers money and after 4+ years finally reached an indictment after 3+ tries(my numbers could be off), you would rate that as a plus to your argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with the resources used in this case. Steroids are dangerous to young people and lying to the grand jury in a criminal investigation is a serious crime. The attention this case will get and the possible deterrent it will be (particularly if there is a conviction) on both steroids use and care-free perjury make it worth every penny.

[/ QUOTE ]

how [censored] naive are you?

barry bonds isn't getting busted cuz he used steroids, he's getting busted cuz he lied.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I think I said that. How [censored] illiterate are you?

Of course the Bonds story sends a mixed message on steroids, but a conviction, a few months in jail and one of the best players in baseball shunned by MLB and the HOF as a cheater is an appropriate ending to the tale.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months in jail? Bonds is facing 30 years. After lying to the feds, do you really think they will plea bargain and let him spend 3 or 4 months in the can? LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, yes.

Three words: Federal Sentencing Guidelines

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
Okay: Maybe someone more well-versed in criminal law can weigh in here, but consider this:

1. The real issue here is whether Bonds lied. As I see it, there is no count in the indictment for actually taking steriods or HGH, or any PED.
2. If Bonds pleads "no contest" that has the legal effect of accepting a conviction, but that it cannot be used for a collateral purpose.
3. The only thing baseball would have against Bonds is that he pleaded no contest to perjury, etc. Otherwise, the issue of whether Bonds "cheated" has never been adjudicated in any venue where baseball has jurisdiction to claim Bonds cheated.
4. This means that baseball would have no basis for touching any of Bonds' records because he is, and never will be (at least absent any further proceedings) found a cheater.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two points....

1. the CBA covers nolo pleas, thus it would be treated the same as a conviction.

2. MLB doesn't need anything from anybody to mess with records or stats. They are the sole property of MLB and are not covered by the player agreement.

Selig could hit the reset button tomorrow and wipe everything from all time out if he really wanted, and the MLBPA couldn't do anything but bitch.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can win without Barry Bonds, as evidenced by the fact that he's never won a World Series ring.

[/ QUOTE ]
bwhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds when healthy was the best hitter in baseball last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds led the majors with a .353 EqA.

The last person to have a better EqA, not named Bonds?

Albert Pujols, four years ago in 2003, with a .362.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the federal government doesn't have anything approaching sufficient evidence to convict bonds. are you [censored] kidding me? why would they have kept his trainer in jail all that time trying to get him to crack? do you really think bonds didn't talk to his lawyer before he testified and say, "if they decide to try and prosecute me for this, will it stick? is this perjury?" does anyone REALLY think these charges are legit?

if you do please PM me with your screen name so i can change your title to 'dumbest [censored] hick ever'

[/ QUOTE ]

It's good to know that you are aware of what evidence and testimonies the prosecution possesses. Indictments don't come lightly. I would be surprised if they do not have a very good case.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is that there is only possible outcome that would be more catastrophic for the DoJ than failing to convict Bonds of all of this perjury and obstruction.

And that is failing to even indict him after 4 years and all this money and effort. There was pretty much NO WAY they would fail to push for an indictment, regardless of how much evidence they had, unless the grand jury itself decided it wasnt enough. But the standard to indict is pretty light, especially compared to the standard to convict. IOW, there was NO WAY the DoJ could have dropped this, regardless of what they thought their chances were.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, perjury, steroid use and tax evasion are really low on my list of things "bad people" do.

Maybe you just missed it, but when they were divorced, these are some of the things Tonya accused Kirby of:

Threatening to kill her.
Choking her with a cord.
Putting a gun in her face.

Other stuff:

Laura Nygren, whom SI describes as Puckett's "mistress of many years," told the magazine that Puckett resumed an affair with her just seven weeks after he was married in 1986 -- then cheated on Nygren with numerous other women

Anyway, the mistress of many years says that when Puckett couldn't play baseball anymore, "he started to become full of himself and very abusive." He began to perform lewd acts in public, such as going to a fancy shopping center, parking there, then opening his car door and stepping out and peeing in plain view of other people (Twins fans presumably included). ...

Laura Nygren, the other woman, says that Puckett often spoke resentfully about having to visit children in order to bulwark his image. "He always said how much he hated going to the hospitals," Nygren says. "He became more [vocal] about how much he hated it after he retired, but he always said he hated it."

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can win without Barry Bonds, as evidenced by the fact that he's never won a World Series ring.

[/ QUOTE ]
bwhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

[/ QUOTE ]

See above post making sure that bit of sarcasm wasn't obvious enough. I'm not up on my smiley use.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]

And that is failing to even indict him after 4 years and all this money and effort. There was pretty much NO WAY they would fail to push for an indictment, regardless of how much evidence they had, unless the grand jury itself decided it wasnt enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

KTVU reported is was one of the longest federal grand jury investigations in Northern California history.

The Baltimore Sun contrasted the length and return on investment to the GJ investigation into abusive priests, in a pretty interesting article.

[ QUOTE ]

The longest-running grand jury investigation into clerical abuse ran for three years. It revealed hundreds of children had been abused by 63 priests over a 35-year period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, perjury, steroid use and tax evasion are really low on my list of things "bad people" do.

Maybe you just missed it, but when they were divorced, these are some of the things Tonya accused Kirby of:

Threatening to kill her.
Choking her with a cord.
Putting a gun in her face.

Other stuff:

Laura Nygren, whom SI describes as Puckett's "mistress of many years," told the magazine that Puckett resumed an affair with her just seven weeks after he was married in 1986 -- then cheated on Nygren with numerous other women

Anyway, the mistress of many years says that when Puckett couldn't play baseball anymore, "he started to become full of himself and very abusive." He began to perform lewd acts in public, such as going to a fancy shopping center, parking there, then opening his car door and stepping out and peeing in plain view of other people (Twins fans presumably included). ...

Laura Nygren, the other woman, says that Puckett often spoke resentfully about having to visit children in order to bulwark his image. "He always said how much he hated going to the hospitals," Nygren says. "He became more [vocal] about how much he hated it after he retired, but he always said he hated it."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with any of that, however, "all signs" point to both of them being much bigger douchebags than anyone who hasn't committed any of the crimes of either of them.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]


Admittedly, I didn't watch him at all last year. But isn't it true that he's basically limited to DH now? If so, would you really expect his production to be better than the average DH?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, yeah, I would expect his production to be awesome compared to most DHs actually, and he'd probably be better than last year because he doesn't have to wear himself out playing the field. Even if he hit a little worse and missed some time he'd still be a stud. Have you looked at who some teams start at DH these days?

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Niss/TM/Oski/etc.
Do you think Lance Williams and Mark Faindru-Wada should be in jail for obstruction of justice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did they "obstruct justice"?

When they refused to name their source, they were in contempt and could have been locked up; but then their source came forward and they could no longer be held in contempt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I dont know anything about the law, do you have to like lay down in front of a cop or nail someones door shut in order to obstruct justice?

"Hey, we know you know who leaked it, who was it?"

"Not telling."

How is that not obstructing? If they had said "I wont tell you but he is on a boat in the Atlantic" and then he really wasnt on a boat in the Atlantic, is THAT obstructing?

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

http://toonrefugee.com/images/barry-bobble.gif

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

vhawk,

it's obstruction, they just chose not to prosecute for it. people saying otherwise are just idiots.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

Some of the outright dishonesty in the media is shocking to me.

Let's talk Mark Fainara-Bada-Bing-Bang.....who today on ESPN wrote this excerpt, surmising that the allegation of a failed steroid test in Nov 2000 is "previously undisclosed new information":

[ QUOTE ]

'...The item that jumped from the 10-page indictment was the revelation of "positive tests for the presence of steroids ...'

'.. informed him about a drug test he had taken in November 2000 that showed he tested positive for testosterone.....

...the previously undisclosed evidence was the first glimpse of the material the government has been secretly compiling against Bonds for almost four years...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yet, almost two years ago, in the book HE WROTE....is this excerpt:

[ QUOTE ]


Bonds underwent one such screening on Nov. 18, 2000, according to BALCO documents. Quest Diagnostics ran an anabolic steroid panel on Bonds.

After the 2001 season, on Nov. 12, LabOne, another drug-testing lab, did another workup on Bonds's testosterone levels. LabOne reported a level of 11.2, which was considered abnormally high for a man of Bonds's age.



[/ QUOTE ]

Is Bada-Bing-Bang really that forgetful about what he wrote in his own book....or is he being purposefully misleading in order to create the false impression that this indictment introduces "new" allegations?

Like Will Carroll wrote in his piece on Deadspin...they need you to believe this indictment presents something new, even though it doesn't....because they couldn't get Greg to talk, and they had no choice here but to go ahead with the indictment rather than to dismiss the GJ with nothing.

The chance of a 4th GJ with a new AG taking over was slim. This is the govt's hail mary to retrieve the sunk cost of the past 4 years wasted chasing their white whale.

4 counts...
4 pitches...
4 balls...
Bonds walks.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

The O/U on the number of months Bonds will spend in the federal pen:

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thu...r_chickens.jpg

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]

How did they "obstruct justice"?

When they refused to name their source, they were in contempt and could have been locked up; but then their source came forward and they could no longer be held in contempt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Better yet, how did Bonds "obstruct justice"?

The Balco defendants were indicted almost immediately after his GJ testimony, and convicted in less than a month.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

True.

I wasn't trying to say Bonds is a great guy, I wouldn't pretend to know that. Someone just said that the Twins were all about "character" guys and that signing Bonds would undermine that. In response I pointed out that the most beloved player in the teams history has allegedly done a lot worse [censored] then what Bonds is being accused of.

It then made me think to point out that it is ridiculous how the general public still loves Puckett and hates Bonds. Neither have been convicted of anything and I'm not saying Puckett did any of that stuff. The media really has been really unfair to Bonds.

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some of the outright dishonesty in the media is shocking to me.

Let's talk Mark Fainara-Bada-Bing-Bang.....who today on ESPN wrote this excerpt, surmising that the allegation of a failed steroid test in Nov 2000 is "previously undisclosed new information":

[ QUOTE ]

'...The item that jumped from the 10-page indictment was the revelation of "positive tests for the presence of steroids ...'

'.. informed him about a drug test he had taken in November 2000 that showed he tested positive for testosterone.....

...the previously undisclosed evidence was the first glimpse of the material the government has been secretly compiling against Bonds for almost four years...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yet, almost two years ago, in the book HE WROTE....is this excerpt:

[ QUOTE ]


Bonds underwent one such screening on Nov. 18, 2000, according to BALCO documents. Quest Diagnostics ran an anabolic steroid panel on Bonds.

After the 2001 season, on Nov. 12, LabOne, another drug-testing lab, did another workup on Bonds's testosterone levels. LabOne reported a level of 11.2, which was considered abnormally high for a man of Bonds's age.



[/ QUOTE ]

Is Bada-Bing-Bang really that forgetful about what he wrote in his own book....or is he being purposefully misleading in order to create the false impression that this indictment introduces "new" allegations?



[/ QUOTE ]

In your first quoted section, the allegation is that Bonds tested positive in Nov 2000. In your second quoted section, he posted "abnormally high" in Nov 2001. Is this not new information?

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

RB, it is Will Leitch, not Will Carroll. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything Will Carroll has written about this is right here:

http://baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=679

Re: Barry Bonds indicted
 

[ QUOTE ]
In your first quoted section, the allegation is that Bonds tested positive in Nov 2000. In your second quoted section, he posted "abnormally high" in Nov 2001. Is this not new information?

[/ QUOTE ]

The allegation that Bonds failed it is "new", in so much as it wasn't presented as part of evidence previously...and one has to wonder if it can be proven, especially considering previous testimony alleges that Greg used his name to send in the tests to cover for Barry, and that the actual samples no longer exist, nor can the chain of custody be confirmed.

I just find it shocking that the same guy who knows this from seeing the original leaked transcript is now writing an article for a major media outlet acting as if he is just learning about this information, neglecting to report on it accurately as to the other facts he knows, and he is putting it forth as being a "huge body shot" to Bonds' case as if it is indisputable fact.