Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's funny how this thread is going to be about "omg how can Doyle fold, wtf?" and if Jaime had J9ss instead of 97ss it would be "omg, Doyle is the best player ever". Either way I think you got to at least call against Jaime. I could definitely understand folding against some of the other players at the table, but not Jaime.

Esfandiari calling Sammy's A9 and Doyle's flush fold was pretty sick. He's not like Negreanu, who just says random stuff every hand and everyone just remembers when he's right.

Couple of nice folds by Sammy. He might appear as a psycho, but he does know when to fold at least.

Great episode I thought. Can't wait for the next one!

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can NOT believe Doyle did not call in that spot. first, he can' simply call the bet on the turn, not expecting another big bet on the river. so the only reason he didin't call, in my opinion, is that he KNEW that he would be playing for all of his 500K and simply didin't want to put all his money in. He had the third nuts against GOLD, a bad player who bluffs way too many times... but it comes down to this: almost everyone is playing 'scared' except for Guy who is a billionaire and 500K is not like $5 to you and me. Doyle was right when he said in the preview that everyone at the table is playing above their limits, except for Guy....


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I think the fact that this hand was against Gold made it even more impressive from Doyle. I looked at Doyle's play as shockingly good, and impressive. He knows Gold is a frequent bluffer. But he read Gold to want a call, which Gold did, Doyle put him on flush, and most flushes beat him. I do think he may not have considered that Gold overvalues hands, but nonetheless I am impressed by his good read.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is very situational and Daniel's decisions were not the same.

Some hands, the gus hand comes to mind, were simply coolers.
Some, like Edogs hand, he could have gotten away from.

Again, people are not saying Doyles fold was the worst one ever made, but it was incorrect based on the fact it was Jamie Gold and the how the board read.

[/ QUOTE ]

DUDE DOYLE DOESNT MAKE MISTAKES HES [censored] TEXAS DOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 THE ONLY PERSON DOYLE CANT BEAT IS CHIP REESE!

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

has gold ever made a speech before a bluff? just level 1 reverse psychology from gold it seems like

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

How about when Daniel called off 40k preflop with QJ suited? Was that a mistake?

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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How about when Daniel called off 40k preflop with QJ suited? Was that a mistake?

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if you subscribe to there are certain hands that you never call with then i'm sure you can present an argument that would be convincing to the rest of the players who subscribe to the same thinking. however, DN is more than capable of playing any two cards expertly, therefore, criticizing his preflop calls is futile.

more info would be needed. i can't remember a JQo call by him last season. or how about do you know the episode number of the hand you're talking about?

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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has gold ever made a speech before a bluff? just level 1 reverse psychology from gold it seems like

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i see what you're going for. but just like us these pros have all watched how he played the 06 ME and i'm sure that they all can remember what he did to prahlad and a few others that he talked and acted during his bluffs.

as i've said before, this guy is running through his BR. he's losing all over the country. doyle can afford to let him have a few bucks knowing that when he's ready he can take a big bite out of Jamie.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

he mostly told the truth during the 06 ME. so he would be stupid to tell the truth at this point...

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is very situational and Daniel's decisions were not the same.

Some hands, the gus hand comes to mind, were simply coolers.
Some, like Edogs hand, he could have gotten away from.

Again, people are not saying Doyles fold was the worst one ever made, but it was incorrect based on the fact it was Jamie Gold and the how the board read.

[/ QUOTE ]

DUDE DOYLE DOESNT MAKE MISTAKES HES [censored] TEXAS DOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 THE ONLY PERSON DOYLE CANT BEAT IS CHIP REESE!

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Just out of curiousity, do you cry yourself to sleep every night? These players are soooo bad, and you're soooo good and yet they have so much more money then you. I bet it hurts real bad to get as unlucky as you (why else aren't you up there).

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is very situational and Daniel's decisions were not the same.

Some hands, the gus hand comes to mind, were simply coolers.
Some, like Edogs hand, he could have gotten away from.

Again, people are not saying Doyles fold was the worst one ever made, but it was incorrect based on the fact it was Jamie Gold and the how the board read.

[/ QUOTE ]

DUDE DOYLE DOESNT MAKE MISTAKES HES [censored] TEXAS DOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 THE ONLY PERSON DOYLE CANT BEAT IS CHIP REESE!

[/ QUOTE ]

Just out of curiousity, do you cry yourself to sleep every night? These players are soooo bad, and you're soooo good and yet they have so much more money then you. I bet it hurts real bad to get as unlucky as you (why else aren't you up there).

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nope i sleep like a baby b/c im 22 and make $400+/hr playing a game. thx for your concern though

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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if you subscribe to there are certain hands that you never call with then i'm sure you can present an argument that would be convincing to the rest of the players who subscribe to the same thinking.

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Insight into the mind of a donator.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Insight into the mind of a donator.

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i take it this means you don't remember anything at all about the hand we were discussing

and since you don't you figure you should put me down.

good tactic. +ev there. (ev .. that's a word you internits love don't you)

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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he mostly told the truth during the 06 ME. so he would be stupid to tell the truth at this point...

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At this point it probably doesn't even matter what he says. Everyone has acquired a natural feel for what he's got based on his body language and mannerisms alone. There's a reason why guys like Ivey just don't do or say anything.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is very situational and Daniel's decisions were not the same.

Some hands, the gus hand comes to mind, were simply coolers.
Some, like Edogs hand, he could have gotten away from.

Again, people are not saying Doyles fold was the worst one ever made, but it was incorrect based on the fact it was Jamie Gold and the how the board read.

[/ QUOTE ]

DUDE DOYLE DOESNT MAKE MISTAKES HES [censored] TEXAS DOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 THE ONLY PERSON DOYLE CANT BEAT IS CHIP REESE!

[/ QUOTE ]

Just out of curiousity, do you cry yourself to sleep every night? These players are soooo bad, and you're soooo good and yet they have so much more money then you. I bet it hurts real bad to get as unlucky as you (why else aren't you up there).

[/ QUOTE ]


nope i sleep like a baby b/c im 22 and make $400+/hr playing a game. thx for your concern though

[/ QUOTE ]

Owned

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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[ QUOTE ]
It's funny how this thread is going to be about "omg how can Doyle fold, wtf?" and if Jaime had J9ss instead of 97ss it would be "omg, Doyle is the best player ever". Either way I think you got to at least call against Jaime. I could definitely understand folding against some of the other players at the table, but not Jaime.

Esfandiari calling Sammy's A9 and Doyle's flush fold was pretty sick. He's not like Negreanu, who just says random stuff every hand and everyone just remembers when he's right.

Couple of nice folds by Sammy. He might appear as a psycho, but he does know when to fold at least.

Great episode I thought. Can't wait for the next one!

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can NOT believe Doyle did not call in that spot. first, he can' simply call the bet on the turn, not expecting another big bet on the river. so the only reason he didin't call, in my opinion, is that he KNEW that he would be playing for all of his 500K and simply didin't want to put all his money in. He had the third nuts against GOLD, a bad player who bluffs way too many times... but it comes down to this: almost everyone is playing 'scared' except for Guy who is a billionaire and 500K is not like $5 to you and me. Doyle was right when he said in the preview that everyone at the table is playing above their limits, except for Guy....


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I think the fact that this hand was against Gold made it even more impressive from Doyle. I looked at Doyle's play as shockingly good, and impressive. He knows Gold is a frequent bluffer. But he read Gold to want a call, which Gold did, Doyle put him on flush, and most flushes beat him. I do think he may not have considered that Gold overvalues hands, but nonetheless I am impressed by his good read.

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Jamie was playing literally any two suited cards, and Doyle is 53% against two random spades. Not to mention bluffs, two pair, straights, and pot odds!

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

Mucking winning hands is -EV.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Can't be bothered to read the rest of the thread, got to the middle of the second page, but I just wanted to comment on the doyle vs gold hand. Some guy said 'if you're going to stack off with the 3rd nuts 400BB deep, you're probably a losing player', and I seriously LOL in your weak-tight face if you're so nitty that people always have a better hand when you get action that deep. In live games people regularly stack off with 1000BBs with one pair. I've won a 1200BB pot in live PLO for god's sake with one pair at showdown, all-in on the turn.

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I believe this is spot on and against Gold's reasonable range in an 300/600/1200 game with 500k$ stacks is any overpair, any pair, any two pair, any set, any flush and the straight + the occasional bluff T-high flush plays so well thats its absolutely ridicilous to even consider folding. Especially when you also know that after his 2x pot raise on turn he is not going anywhere with any of those hands even if you move allin for about 380,000$ more.
And since you've won a 1200BB pot in live PLO with just one pair (all-in on turn) (I bet you had atleast 51% equity) (Doyle has 0% btw, do you think it makes any difference?) I'll take your word for it.

But on a more serious note, if you or anyone else want to contribute to televised poker you don't have to make bad posts like 99% of the people do you could actually make good posts with good thinking, but no everyone just keeps making bad posts, WHYYY.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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But on a more serious note, if you or anyone else want to contribute to televised poker you don't have to make bad posts like 99% of the people do you could actually make good posts with good thinking, but no everyone just keeps making bad posts, WHYYY.

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I guess we're not as smart as you. For insance, I thought stacking off with top pair 1000 big blinds deep was pretty bad poker until you just fixed that leak for me. Thank you sir.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Can't be bothered to read the rest of the thread, got to the middle of the second page, but I just wanted to comment on the doyle vs gold hand. Some guy said 'if you're going to stack off with the 3rd nuts 400BB deep, you're probably a losing player', and I seriously LOL in your weak-tight face if you're so nitty that people always have a better hand when you get action that deep. In live games people regularly stack off with 1000BBs with one pair. I've won a 1200BB pot in live PLO for god's sake with one pair at showdown, all-in on the turn.

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I believe this is spot on and against Gold's reasonable range in an 300/600/1200 game with 500k$ stacks is any overpair, any pair, any two pair, any set, any flush and the straight + the occasional bluff T-high flush plays so well thats its absolutely ridicilous to even consider folding. Especially when you also know that after his 2x pot raise on turn he is not going anywhere with any of those hands even if you move allin for about 380,000$ more.
And since you've won a 1200BB pot in live PLO with just one pair (all-in on turn) (I bet you had atleast 51% equity) (Doyle has 0% btw, do you think it makes any difference?) I'll take your word for it.

But on a more serious note, if you or anyone else want to contribute to televised poker you don't have to make bad posts like 99% of the people do you could actually make good posts with good thinking, but no everyone just keeps making bad posts, WHYYY.

[/ QUOTE ]

this level is so good that I'm actually not sure if it's a level. >_>

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Re: Doyle-Gold: maybe the posters knew it was a level and were re-leveling in their replies in order to level me into thinking I was the only one who knew the original post was a level.......wow, well played sirs.

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Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Mucking winning hands is -EV.

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No sh*t Sherlock.

Yeah, and PA is gonna win it all.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

Youre missing that fact that Doyle knew he could find a better spot to pick off Gold. Why go with the 3rd nuts there when youre reading someone as very strong and he'll probably hand you all his money later? Very nice laydown by Doyle, esp. against someone like Gold.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Never mucking winning hands is -EV.

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FYP.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Never mucking winning hands is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP.

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Really?

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

yes

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

Never mucking a winning hand means never ever mucking a hand - unless you cheat or something.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

Yes. You must not understand poker that well.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

I was just leveling...now I'm kind of confused.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe this is spot on and against Gold's reasonable range in an 300/600/1200 game with 500k$ stacks is any overpair

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Overpair to the ace?

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any pair

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Yeah, he's going to vb check-raise $100K with a pair. Sure.

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any two pair, any set, any flush and the straight + the occasional bluff T-high flush plays so well thats its absolutely ridicilous to even consider folding.

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You don't seem to grasp Doyle was going on a read that Jamie was extremely strong. His speech and gestures were oozing confidence.

And something that I don't think has been mentioned is that QsTs was probably the most likely hand for Doyle to have himself (he led into a big field of limpers on a KsJd4s flop, and then bet the turn when checked to after both the flush and OESD draws hit) and yet Jamie didn't seem worried about that hand at all. Granted, he might not have even been trying to put Doyle on a hand, but more likely, at least in Doyle's mind, it meant Jamie must have had the Qs.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

anyone else hate that they have to have the big stacks of cash to add to the "hish stakes" effect? what's wrong with just giving them 50 5k chips

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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anyone else hate that they have to have the big stacks of cash to add to the "hish stakes" effect? what's wrong with just giving them 50 5k chips

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Gabe had bricks of 1 dollar bill stacks...and it looked awesome.

Sometimes the look of your stack is more important than the size. Mind games.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

true, except when everyone has them, at least they help block from people trying to see your cards, since everyone is seperated by their cash walls

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

Whenever i'm playing my regular 2-4 limit game at the taj i like to keep at least 2 or 3 50k bricks on either side of me so one sees my cards

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Whenever i'm playing my regular 2-4 limit game at the taj i like to keep at least 2 or 3 50k bricks on either side of me so one sees my cards

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I prefer those bricks:
http://mmolog.files.wordpress.com/20..._gold_coin.jpg

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Youre missing that fact that Doyle knew he could find a better spot to pick off Gold. Why go with the 3rd nuts there when youre reading someone as very strong and he'll probably hand you all his money later? Very nice laydown by Doyle, esp. against someone like Gold.

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this makes sense. look to get into a hand with Gold. because he's horrible.

make third nuts.

fold

reason = esp. against someone like Gold.

here's your real reason = can't call a big bet or raise a big bet without the mortal nuts!! that's safe for sure! wtg.

how about this reasoning. gold raised 100k to keep doyle from drawing with his pair of aces with the nut flush draw? doesn't that fit in better with gold's routine thinking? doyle, i think, simply gave gold too much credit in that hand. i think that is why barry describes him as tilting over the hand. because he believed after the hand that he should have called.

note: my criticism is of you, not Doyle's play

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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how about this reasoning. gold raised 100k to keep doyle from drawing with his pair of aces with the nut flush draw? doesn't that fit in better with gold's routine thinking? doyle, i think, simply gave gold too much credit in that hand. i think that is why barry describes him as tilting over the hand. because he believed after the hand that he should have called.


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Even if Gold thinks Doyle has a pair with the nut flush draw, what kind of hand can Gold possible have? Are you saying here is that Gold is prepared to play for his entire stack with any hand that is better than a pair of aces with the nut flush draw? He is a fish but not a complete idiot. Gold thought he was super-strong and made it very obvious - he would not feel that way with a pair or trips even, not with 3 spades on the board in a multi-way pot. In my mind Doyle had the choice to make a marginal call, risking his entire stack or wait for a better spot. I suspect it is because of this kind of reasoning Doyle has had such long-term success. If you push to hard in those marginal spots the variance can break you.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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how about this reasoning. gold raised 100k to keep doyle from drawing with his pair of aces with the nut flush draw? doesn't that fit in better with gold's routine thinking? doyle, i think, simply gave gold too much credit in that hand. i think that is why barry describes him as tilting over the hand. because he believed after the hand that he should have called.


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Even if Gold thinks Doyle has a pair with the nut flush draw, what kind of hand can Gold possible have? Are you saying here is that Gold is prepared to play for his entire stack with any hand that is better than a pair of aces with the nut flush draw? He is a fish but not a complete idiot. Gold thought he was super-strong and made it very obvious - he would not feel that way with a pair or trips even, not with 3 spades on the board in a multi-way pot. In my mind Doyle had the choice to make a marginal call, risking his entire stack or wait for a better spot. I suspect it is because of this kind of reasoning Doyle has had such long-term success. If you push to hard in those marginal spots the variance can break you.

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Exactly. Well said.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Youre missing that fact that Doyle knew he could find a better spot to pick off Gold. Why go with the 3rd nuts there when youre reading someone as very strong and he'll probably hand you all his money later? Very nice laydown by Doyle, esp. against someone like Gold.

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This is a cash game, not a tournament. You don't surpass +EV spots except in very specific circumstances, this doesn't qualify. How does Doyle know he is going to get in a better spot against Jamie? This is live poker, meaning not many hands per hour, and there are 8 other people playing, all just as likely to get Jamie's money. If the third nuts isn't good enough then you're putting Jamie presicely on the second or complete nuts, meaning that in the future you're going to wait until you get the nuts vs Jamie's second nuts? That's extremely unlikely to happen. How often have we even seen big nuts vs second nuts hands overall during HSP? Now what are the odds that happens with two specific players?

Besides, if Doyle loses he can rebuy to cover Jamie who will have a stack of an excess of > $1 million. If Doyle wins, Jamie may or may not rebuy, but it doesn't really matter at that point, he stacked Jamie which is what he wanted to do all along.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Youre missing that fact that Doyle knew he could find a better spot to pick off Gold. Why go with the 3rd nuts there when youre reading someone as very strong and he'll probably hand you all his money later? Very nice laydown by Doyle, esp. against someone like Gold.

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This is a cash game, not a tournament. You don't surpass +EV spots except in very specific circumstances, this doesn't qualify. How does Doyle know he is going to get in a better spot against Jamie? This is live poker, meaning not many hands per hour, and there are 8 other people playing, all just as likely to get Jamie's money. If the third nuts isn't good enough then you're putting Jamie presicely on the second or complete nuts, meaning that in the future you're going to wait until you get the nuts vs Jamie's second nuts? That's extremely unlikely to happen. How often have we even seen big nuts vs second nuts hands overall during HSP? Now what are the odds that happens with two specific players?

Besides, if Doyle loses he can rebuy to cover Jamie who will have a stack of an excess of > $1 million. If Doyle wins, Jamie may or may not rebuy, but it doesn't really matter at that point, he stacked Jamie which is what he wanted to do all along.

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Yeah, I would imagine Doyle easily able to rebuy.

Perhaps he didn't have the funds available at the time? Who knows..

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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Even if Gold thinks Doyle has a pair with the nut flush draw, what kind of hand can Gold possible have? Are you saying here is that Gold is prepared to play for his entire stack with any hand that is better than a pair of aces with the nut flush draw?

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no.. what i am saying is that gold believes he has the best hand at that moment. i is aware that his flush is vulnerable. he wants to raise doyle an amount that makes it harder for doyle to call, yet if doyle calls he must get lucky to beat his made flush. the way i see it, gold did not want doyle to call his raise. he wanted the fold and to take down the pot.

how is this so hard to understand.. you've never made a similar bet?
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He is a fish but not a complete idiot. Gold thought he was super-strong and made it very obvious - he would not feel that way with a pair or trips even, not with 3 spades on the board in a multi-way pot.

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i agree. yet he did not want to simply call doyle, or min raise him (or a little more like 75k). if he had the nut flush he would have surely done one of these things.

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In my mind Doyle had the choice to make a marginal call, risking his entire stack or wait for a better spot.

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i believe that you are right. yet, i think that if doyle had taken more time (if it is to believed that there wasn't a chunk of time edited out of the broadcast where doyle actually did spend some time thinking) that he may have reasoned it out that gold was not very strong with his raise.

i also acknowledge that there are times that you sit with a player and you read him as being much stronger than he actually is. i will reiterate... i do not find great fault with doyle's fold here.
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I suspect it is because of this kind of reasoning Doyle has had such long-term success. If you push to hard in those marginal spots the variance can break you.

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the man says he's been broke more than 100 times in his career. i don't think you or i have anywhere near the knowledge of variance that doyle has. we are discussing a hand that we did not play. it's impossible to know what you or i (anyone) would have done when the action came to us after jamie raised. many people fail to realize that when commenting on hands viewed on television.

Re: High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)
 

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I suspect it is because of this kind of reasoning Doyle has had such long-term success. If you push to hard in those marginal spots the variance can break you.

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Doyle didn't get rich by avoiding +EV decisions, and Doyle is worth god knows how much. His bankroll isn't exactly his net worth, but if he could take a 55-60% edge for a million dollar pot I'm sure he'd take it every chance that he could.