Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, here are the details on the Mark Seif/stuckinpgh HH release. It's a series of emails, read from top to bottom.
. . .
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
people are saying i could see his hole cards because i beat him pretty badly after i took a short break , probablt to smoke
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
yes lasy year
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
i have agreed to expose my hole cards
. . .
AP Support Guy says (10:52 PM):
viewing other player's whole cards real time
. . .
Mark Seif says (10:55 PM):
well of course xxxxxxx but i dont know why anyone would have a problem with me showing the public my hole cards\
. . .
Mark Seif says (11:09 PM):
there are all sorts of lies and exaggeration out there and i dont really know how to set the record straight except to provide access to my hole cards
. . .
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
if people think that you had access to other player's whole cards
. . .
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
and explain that once you had that ability to see other players' whole cards, you would continue to use them up until recently
. . .

[/ QUOTE ]

For everyone who thinks this transcript is faked --

In this text, hole cards is spelled properly as "hole" every time by Mark Sief. Hole cards is spelled incorrectly as "whole" every time by AP Support Guy.

Granted, it could be a plant to make the transcript seem more legit. But, much more likely IMO, this isn't a fake and this chat happened between two different actual people.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, here are the details on the Mark Seif/stuckinpgh HH release. It's a series of emails, read from top to bottom.
. . .
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
people are saying i could see his hole cards because i beat him pretty badly after i took a short break , probablt to smoke
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
yes lasy year
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
i have agreed to expose my hole cards
. . .
AP Support Guy says (10:52 PM):
viewing other player's whole cards real time
. . .
Mark Seif says (10:55 PM):
well of course xxxxxxx but i dont know why anyone would have a problem with me showing the public my hole cards\
. . .
Mark Seif says (11:09 PM):
there are all sorts of lies and exaggeration out there and i dont really know how to set the record straight except to provide access to my hole cards
. . .
AP Support Guy says (11:10 PM):
if people think that you had access to other player's whole cards
. . .
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
and explain that once you had that ability to see other players' whole cards, you would continue to use them up until recently
. . .

[/ QUOTE ]

For everyone who thinks this transcript is faked --

In this text, hole cards is spelled properly as "hole" every time by Mark Sief. Hole cards is spelled incorrectly as "whole" every time by AP Support Guy.

Granted, it could be a plant to make the transcript seem more legit. But, much more likely IMO, this isn't a fake and this chat happened between two different actual people.

[/ QUOTE ]

what horrible, nonsensical logic

edit: nobody is saying it didn't happen. it almost certainly did take place, only they were in all likelihood reading off some sort of script. one party misspelling a word repeatedly does not prove or disprove anything.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (10:48 PM):
everything being demolished by a couple of stuipid and ignorant maniacs

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't AP's official statement point the finger at one person (the consultant), not two people?

[ QUOTE ]
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
people are saying i could see his hole cards because i beat him pretty badly after i took a short break , probablt to smoke
...
AP Support Guy says (10:51 PM):
ok well that was not possible in Feb last year for sure

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the AP Support Guy know the details about when users could see hole cards?

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (10:55 PM):
well, the issue is a quite sensitive one these days as you understand

[/ QUOTE ]

So there are certain hand histories that AP won't release without approval from higher ups?

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (11:18 PM):
ok mark i just got the confirmation that we do not have the hand history from feb 2006
AP Support Guy says (11:18 PM):
it's not about being properly saved

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused. The hand history was properly saved, but AP doesn't have it?

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (11:19 PM):
hey Craig
Mark Seif says (11:19 PM):
??
AP Support Guy says (11:19 PM):
i'm trying to invite Craig
Mark Seif says (11:19 PM):
who is craig?
AP Support Guy says (11:20 PM):
he's in charge of our servers
AP Support Guy says (11:21 PM):
he's not answering

[/ QUOTE ]

How convenient. Maybe Craig can dig up Mark's hand history.

[ QUOTE ]
AP Support Guy says (11:23 PM):
and explain that once you had that ability to see other players' whole cards, you would continue to use them up until recently

[/ QUOTE ]

This AP Support Guy seems to know a lot about how a player would act if he had the ability to see everyone's hole cards.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

can we get a tea leaf reading expert in to analyse the statement too? how about a psychic woman to determine whether she is getting the right vibrations from mark seif?

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Im sure this conversation went down either as described or slighlty altered but it seems incredibly obvious that Seif was planning to release the transcript and was trying to come across all 'look, this is how I was talking in private, it's obvious I'm innocent!!'. Whether support was in on the gig is not clear. Whether Seif is actually innocent and was just putting on this act out of desperation to try and get the truth out or not, is also unclear.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
what horrible, nonsensical logic

edit: nobody is saying it didn't happen. it almost certainly did take place, only they were in all likelihood reading off some sort of script. one party misspelling a word repeatedly does not prove or disprove anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people have said the chat never happened. I'm not saying it gives any credibility toward the conversation as being totally accurate, but I believe it gives credibility toward the conversation as not having just written by one person.

If it was a fake, it would seem to me like someone would have written it to look like a chat transcript rather than having actually used a chat program.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: I don't think it's being done to a script, but there is no way that is a genuine, unprepared conversation as it is being presented.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah, it's not like I'm betting money on Seif not speaking for the record knowing that it was going to be posted here. I'm just saying the actual conversation probably happened/is at least verifiable.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
can we get a tea leaf reading expert in to analyse the statement too? how about a psychic woman to determine whether she is getting the right vibrations from mark seif?

[/ QUOTE ]

She'd be about as believable.

EDIT: Dean: I think that's spot on.

Call me crazy-ape-bonkers, folks, but 30 Gig per month seems awful high for HH. It's nothing special: a bog-standard text file, not many gaps, I mean - 30 gig per month?

Can someone who knows more than I do confirm that's a realistic figure?

I only ask because it's a clearly fact-checkable statement in the transcript.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Royal,
You brought up some great points in your post, although I don't agree with all of them. The first three points you made were very good, but this one strikes me the most...
[ QUOTE ]
Didn't AP's official statement point the finger at one person (the consultant), not two people?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is amazing, and I can't believe I missed that.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Somebody should compile a new thread of adanthar and Nat's responses to everyone. I open these threads and all I do is search for their posts as I consider the rest pretty meaningless to even bother reading as 99.99999% of everyone elses comments are purely based upon what those two guys have done.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
edit: nobody is saying it didn't happen. it almost certainly did take place, only they were in all likelihood reading off some sort of script. one party misspelling a word repeatedly does not prove or disprove anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys and your tin-foil hats...jesus christ.

Every time I open this thread I'm amazed by the stuff people are saying.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Josem, some very good points. A balancing argument is always helpful, but regarding your impression that AP is no longer run by crooks: Well, I do a great impression of Ren & Stimpy and it's worth about the same. Seriously, dude - evidence so far says AP is protecting Scott Tom and AJ Green/Grimard (it's been so long since we mentioned them, don't you think?). That stinks as bad as the initial offence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jebus, stop doing this. No, the evidence certainly does not say that AP is protecting AJ Green (except for that whole 'blackmailing' thing.) In fact, every piece of evidence unanimously points at everyone at AP wanting Green's head on a stick, and if I were AJ Green, I would make it a point not to enter any dark alleys in the near future.

The evidence also does not 'point to' AP protecting Scott Tom. Right now, I would say it's inconclusive whether they are doing that, and I'd really love to know one way or the other because it would pretty much determine the course I'd take with this from now on. On the other hand, I'm fairly sure you don't know any more than I do, so stop saying it's a certainty. AP not going to the cops doesn't mean a thing for obvious reasons - they're not even gonna out AJ Green, and you can bet if Green ever enters Kawanahke he's not coming back out, so what does that tell you?

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
can we get a tea leaf reading expert in to analyse the statement too? how about a psychic woman to determine whether she is getting the right vibrations from mark seif?

[/ QUOTE ]

it doesn't take a [censored] psychic to know that they knew this convo would be posted everywhere. it also doesn't take a psychic to know what that means about the credibility of said convo.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
She'd be about as believable.

EDIT: Dean: I think that's spot on.

Call me crazy-ape-bonkers, folks, but 30 Gig per month seems awful high for HH. It's nothing special: a bog-standard text file, not many gaps, I mean - 30 gig per month?

Can someone who knows more than I do confirm that's a realistic figure?

I only ask because it's a clearly fact-checkable statement in the transcript.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the size they're discussing is not the size of text hand histories, but the size it takes in their database. That will inflate the size much beyond what a flat text would be. A prudent thing to do if you WERE going to delete from your database, is at least keep the text files around... That would reduce the size tremendously.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

No worries folks.

Apparently AP has located the log files of hand histories dating back two months and more.

There is just one problem, the storage technique they were using was unconventional.









http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5...inusesmop2.jpg

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call me crazy-ape-bonkers, folks, but 30 Gig per month seems awful high for HH. It's nothing special: a bog-standard text file, not many gaps, I mean - 30 gig per month?

Can someone who knows more than I do confirm that's a realistic figure?

[/ QUOTE ]

A typicaly hand history in raw text format is about 1K, so 30GB would be 30 million hands. Based on hand histories I've seen posted, the hand numbers increased from about 750m on 9/1 to 778m on 10/1, or 28 million in a month. So 30GB sounds dead on, actually. If you compressed the hands (like with ZIP), they'd probably only take 5GB or so. If you left them in a database, they would take more than the 30GB.

I don't know if their play money hand histories use the same numbering scheme, so the 28m may or may not include play money.

-pyg

Just got paid.
 

Absolute just paid me $$ for cash game losses to Doubledrag, Graycat, and Steamroller.

Re: Just got paid.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Absolute just paid me $$ for cash game losses to Doubledrag, Graycat, and Steamroller.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. That's 3. Care to revise that statement AP?

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
AP not going to the cops doesn't mean a thing for obvious reasons - they're not even gonna out AJ Green, and you can bet if Green ever enters Kawanahke he's not coming back out, so what does that tell you?

[/ QUOTE ]

That tells me this is the shadiest company in poker and are willing to murder to protect their interests. What does it mean to you?
And if this is the case, I hope for Nat's sake he finds ABSOLUTELY nothing in Costa Rica.

OTOH, they have a great reload bonus and 10% interest... LOL

Re: Just got paid.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Absolute just paid me $$ for cash game losses to Doubledrag, Graycat, and Steamroller.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same, got a lot. Adanthar and Nat...I want to donate 500 each to your favorite charities. Let me know what they are.

Dave

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Thanks, pyg. That would have taken me hours (bless this florid grape...)

adanthar,

When I say 'protecting' I mean 'not prosecuting', nothing more. They hate AJ, etc. but they won't turn him in - apparently 'cos he can screw them all over. Well, that's reassuring!

I know you reckon that's because of him knowing which frat-boy families are living off something the US Govt doesn't particularly approve of, but I really don't think he'd betray any of that. These are old friends. From what I've read about Allan Grimard, I actually think he'd take one for the team... (Sorry, couldn't resist it.)

Our difference of opinion is essentially this: you think AP has a good side, which is now in charge, but is powerless to report AJG and/or ST. Blackmail, basically. My view: I also think AP has a good side, but it is not in charge even now, and it never will be. The company structure and oversight is completely opaque, and the only evidence that 'the bad guys are gone' is a statement from the bad guys office.

When a reputable company uncovers a rogue trader (or two, according to AP support), they hang them out to dry. Surely you can see my point here?

Re: Just got paid.
 

How far back does the HH file on your computer go? I don't mean PT or other programs, just the raw HH saved from play at AP, Stars or Party?

I have never deleted any HH's, but now only have the last month stored in that file for both AP and Stars. Anyone else see that and is there a fix to save them on my machine for longer? Thanks.

Re: Just got paid.
 

slacker,

PT and HM both can copy and move your HHs to somewhere else on your PC. this saves them from your poker client deleting them after x days.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

I don't need to see or hear anything else. I do not believe that AP did not retain HHs. I never will believe it even if the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and Chief Joe all show up at my doorstep begging me to believe it. The HHs are part and parcel of demonstrating who paid what to whom, when and why. There is no way they would destroy these in light of the miniscule amount of space and expense it would take to retain them. Its just another incredible and unfortunate "coincidence."

Re: Just got paid.
 

Woot!

Just got my ~9k back from cashgame losses.

I must say I am very impressed/suprised

Edit- Maybe Ill take off my tin foil hat now

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Two interesting tidbits from that chat transcript...

[ QUOTE ]

AP Support Guy says (10:47 PM):
everything we've worked for
AP Support Guy says (10:47 PM):
disgusting is the right word
AP Support Guy says (10:48 PM):
everything being demolished by a couple of stuipid and ignorant maniacs


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
people are saying i could see his hole cards because i beat him pretty badly after i took a short break , probablt to smoke
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
yes lasy year
Mark Seif says (10:51 PM):
i have agreed to expose my hole cards
AP Support Guy says (10:51 PM):
ok well that was not possible in Feb last year for sure
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
so that people can see my hands and see that i did nothing wrong
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
what do you mean its not possible?
Mark Seif says (10:52 PM):
oh i know that
AP Support Guy says (10:52 PM):
viewing other player's whole cards real time


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Just got paid.
 

slacker- 30 days may be the default setting.

I have stars set to something like 1000 days in my settings.

Re: Just got paid.
 

[ QUOTE ]
slacker,

PT and HM both can copy and move your HHs to somewhere else on your PC. this saves them from your poker client deleting them after x days.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Josem! I brought that up b/c it would seem to me that Mark and/or the other player in question would most likely have that sort of program running during play. Most ballas do (or so I'm told). Any possibility they are overlooking something in their own files????
Slacka

Re: Just got paid.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Absolute just paid me $$ for cash game losses to Doubledrag, Graycat, and Steamroller.

[/ QUOTE ]

Massive thankyou to everyone for their efforts. Josem, I owe you many many drinks and I promise to be as hospitable as I can to Adanthar and Nat if you ever come to Melbourne (Aussie Millions 08?).

Let this not rest here as Absolute wishes it to though!

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

EHG,

Two options:

1) Absolute is incompetent, and deleted the HHs

2) Absolute is evil, and deleted the HHs


I think in this case, 1 is more likely. This is because the HHs disappearing massively predate this whole situation.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Calling ADMO for a "My Dog Ate My......" Photoshop job.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

3) Absolute is egregiously incompetent and evil.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
EHG,

Two options:

1) Absolute is incompetent, and deleted the HHs

2) Absolute is evil, and deleted the HHs


I think in this case, 1 is more likely. This is because the HHs disappearing massively predate this whole situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, 3) they will tell us in a week that they were wrong and they actaully do have the hand histories, that they were in a big box in the basement of the frat house. But I will grant you the possibility that it could be gross incompetence instead of graft.

I would have donated my old laptop and unit if they were hard up for cash and couldn't afford a stack of DVDs or a hard drive. But I thought they were doing all right, with lavish weddings in France, private jets to tool around south america, new cribs in Costa Rica, etc.

All I'm saying is its stretches the imagination, one way or the other.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Two options:

1) Absolute is incompetent, and deleted the HHs

2) Absolute is evil, and deleted the HHs


[/ QUOTE ]

These possibilities aren't mutually exclusive.

I've always been amazed at the internal incompetence of every poker site but one. Not to defend Absolute, but they aren't even the most incompetent site out there.

-pyg

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

In the penny stock world there is a phenomena called incompetence by design, that is - strategic incompetence.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Newbie question:

Has BBV always been the most popular part of the 2+2 forums, 24/7, or is it just this story skewing the viewing figures?

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

[ QUOTE ]
Newbie question:

Has BBV always been the most popular part of the 2+2 forums, 24/7, or is it just this story skewing the viewing figures?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its been up there for a long time

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Adanthar- you may want to check out the NVG thread were it appears people are getting "official" replies recently from Absolute Poker that echo the one that appeared in the zoo thread weeks ago.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

First off, Nat, Adanthar, Josem and Snagglepus [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Sometimes I feel like you guys are the only sane people posting in these threads. You all have handled the idiots much better than I, and its about time I deal with idiots on this forum by ignoring them, the same way I tend to in real life.

Finally, just got my money back, ended being ~40k. This is approx a months work for me and is greatly appreciated. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it all yet, but I'll think about during study breaks tonight. (Got some HW due tomorrow morning.)

Thanks again.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

ikes- glad you got your money back. On that Absolute seems to be doing the right thing right now.