Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

I'd trade everyone to get KG. When Bynum gets good, Kobe will be like 32. Odom will never be that good. He's more like a 3rd banana.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
lets start the KG to lakers rumors. i would love to see that happen!

[/ QUOTE ]

NOOOOOO! The West doesn't need any more powerhouses.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

I just thought of something. I hope Dessert Cat reads this. We've gone back and forth about taking charges and how Raja and Nash are awesome at it (both at the top of the league), but I don't think it's all that big a deal. JoA got me thinking about this when he said Harris tries to take charges all the time. Well he was second in the league this year. But JoA had a point. It's not that successful.

And I noticed it in the opening tonight with Raja going for it and getting a blocking call. Just right now Nash did the same thing. Some times it's obvious to go for a charge.. i.e. when someone's crashing a packed lane. But a lot of these charge artists try it in lots of situations, including 1 on 1 drives. This often results in a blocking foul. So the stat is pretty meaningless and doesn't say a lot about the value of the charges. What we really need is some sort of % stat. Someone like Nash drawing half a charge a game isn't all that valuable, because he's probably trying to draw 2 or 3 per game. That's a net defensive loss. An average defender would be better off just playing D instead of looking for the charge.

Anyway just rambling, but I think it's interesting.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Controversy at the end!

Smush is a douche!

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Smush is a douche!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that. I kind of feel bad for him there. He was just trying to avoid getting held scoreless and he has to take the hard foul and get berated for it. I really doubt he would have tried to score there if he wasn't sitting on a goose egg.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

If he wasn't a douche he wouldn't care about the goose egg.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

ClassicBob- I think I know who it is.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Controversy at the end!

Smush is a douche!

[/ QUOTE ]

i hate smush and i admire him for trying to dunk it at the end. that would have sent the fans in LA into a crazy excited rage and it would have given the team so much energy.

the suns blew the lakers out the other night. what's another 2 points in game 3?

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just thought of something. I hope Dessert Cat reads this. We've gone back and forth about taking charges and how Raja and Nash are awesome at it (both at the top of the league), but I don't think it's all that big a deal. JoA got me thinking about this when he said Harris tries to take charges all the time. Well he was second in the league this year. But JoA had a point. It's not that successful.

And I noticed it in the opening tonight with Raja going for it and getting a blocking call. Just right now Nash did the same thing. Some times it's obvious to go for a charge.. i.e. when someone's crashing a packed lane. But a lot of these charge artists try it in lots of situations, including 1 on 1 drives. This often results in a blocking foul. So the stat is pretty meaningless and doesn't say a lot about the value of the charges. What we really need is some sort of % stat. Someone like Nash drawing half a charge a game isn't all that valuable, because he's probably trying to draw 2 or 3 per game. That's a net defensive loss. An average defender would be better off just playing D instead of looking for the charge.

Anyway just rambling, but I think it's interesting.

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perhaps, but consider all that a charge does accomplish:

-other team turns over the ball
-foul on other team, usually on a decent player since good players are more likely to be driving than bad players
-stops clock(important if you're behind)


From a defensive perspective, its probably the best result possible.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

KC, interesting post. I think people just get excited when a charge is called and as you said, don't realize how often it is instead called blocking.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Whats the point of giving a team energy when the game is over? Its not like that dunk would provide so much energy taht it would carry over and affect game 4.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Assani,

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps, but consider all that a charge does accomplish:

-other team turns over the ball
-foul on other team, usually on a decent player since good players are more likely to be driving than bad players
-stops clock(important if you're behind)


From a defensive perspective, its probably the best result possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not trying to get in the middle of this, I just wanted to throw something out there.

I see your point and the charge from a defensive standpoint does a lot of good. Lets take your points in consideration. Now lets assume the defender attempts this 3 other times in the game and it is called blocking, so he is 1 for 4 on the game. What has he accomplished on the flip side:

Defender has 3 fouls
Opposing team has a possible max 6 points
Opposing team stops clock (important if they are behind--your logic)

I do think that there is some validity in picking your spots when deciding to take a charge.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Assani,

yeah I'm not debating the value of what a single charge call does. If you're a plus defender and you can pick up a charge in key spots, that's valuable. But if you're going for it a lot, and you're batting .250.. it's a net loss (see tdarko's post).

I guess my point is that we need more data. This year Varejao led the league in offensive foul calls drawn (not exactly a charge, but let's just assume here.. likely the vast majority are charges). He had 99, so a bit over 1 per game. No one else averaged 1 per game. My argument before was it's just not that many to make it all that valuable. If you consider a possession worth a point, then Varejao prevented a point per game. Not bad at all, but nothing breathtaking. And that's the most in the league.

Now if figure out success rates, it's likely he's preventing much less than a point per game. It'd be cool to get that kind of data. And it'd probably be more interesting to see it on a per team basis. The team leaders this year were CHI, UTAH, and PHX, in that order. It'd be interesting to see how often they go for it.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

KC, a point a game strikes me as a lot. But, as you said, the success rate would be key. So in actuality, its not a point a game. It could be the complete opposite. Why doesn't Tuq e-mail Hollinger?

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

I'm not really disagreeing with you at all. I was merely pointing out that the charge is a big defensive play because I didn't see you mention that in your analysis...thats all. I'm rather undecided on this issue right now.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Ok, I've thought over the charge issue. My opinion....

On every level of basketball that I've played, my coaches have always stressed the value of taking charges. We were taught as a team to always "run over and pick your teamate up" who has just taken a charge, and the coach gets very excited over someone doing this.

I think that the mistake of the your analysis, KC, is that you're assuming that most attempted charge draws are taken out on the perimeter or are a defender taking a random chance. In my opinion, 90% of charges happen as the offensive player is going in for a layup.

Now I will agree with you that its not smart to try to draw a charge out on the perimeter a lot like Steve Nash did late in the game today. I agree with you basically for all of the reasons you listed. I basically think its a case by case scenario. For example, if you're down and need to take a chance then you might as well go for a charge because even if you don't succeed, it'll just send them to the foul line which at least stops the clock. For the record, I think that Nash's attempt to draw a charge late in the game was horrible because it was so late in the shot clock and his team wasn't even in the penalty so it reset the shot clock.

However, as I said, the majority of charges are taken near the basket when a guy comes over to play help defense. Imo, thats why we should applaud guys who are near the top of the league in charges drawn. For one, it means that they're playing good help defense. Secondly, most of the time, if they didn't try to take the charge a layup would've occured, so even if its a blocking foul thats better than giving up a layup. I do realize the potential for the three point play, but I think its worth it.

So perhaps when whichever poster pointed out that Nash is an underrated defender because he takes a lot of charges....maybe he was trying to say that while Nash is a poor on the ball defender, he plays good help defense and is usually in the right position.

I just re-read your initial post, and I see that you do realize that charges drawn in this situation are good, but you think that its bad to try to draw a charge in a 1-on-1 situation. I completley agree with you, but I think that you overstate how often Nash/Bell go for these attempts. If they're near the top of the league in charges taken, its probably due to good help defense moreso than gambling on 1-on-1 defense.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why does this garbage have to be on TNT while the varsity game is on NBATV? Yeah, what a compelling matchup. Team that everybody hates vs. team that is a legitimate case for reducing the number of playoff teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know NBATV costs $1.95 a month, right? So stop complaining.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

tdarko,

don't forget the 3rd option, which is a no-call. Then you've sold your team out to playing 5 on 4 defense with a guy driving.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Assani,

I'm not really claiming that Nash and Raja do that. Raja is a plus defender, so him drawing that many charges is probably quite valuable. I'm just saying I want to see some data on this.

Also I'm just sick of the charge calls. You can practically step under a guy and get the call, but that's a whole other issue.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

If VC played like this every night hed be on Kobe status. Seriously, after this game Kidd needs to sit his ass down and tell him to take it to the hoop like this every game. They could win the East if VC played this way.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also I'm just sick of the charge calls. You can practically step under a guy and get the call, but that's a whole other issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it. So sick of people sticking their head down and plowing into their defender, getting the call every time.

back to the actual playoffs - Raptors are in some serious trouble. Not sure why everyone wrote off the Nets, their big 3 are playing as well as ever, and they have a ton of playoff experience.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Because they've played uninspired crappy basketball all season. I kept going back and forth. I banked on them not waking up. They have. I'm a big Lawrence Frank fan.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because they've played uninspired crappy basketball all season. I kept going back and forth. I banked on them not waking up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically how I analyzed the series. Boy I was wrong =(

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

I can't remember when a team shot so poorly from the line

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

If the heat pull this off I see a repeat of the Mavs series.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the heat pull this off I see a repeat of the Mavs series.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH - the awful officiating has already started.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the heat pull this off I see a repeat of the Mavs series.

[/ QUOTE ]
no

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

espn would like to take this opportunity to inform you that this is the first time in 13 years that the warriors have been in the playoffs.

stay tuned to espn for additional reminders of this fact.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

they're playing great so far.

SJax to Biedrins > Nash to Amare

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

biedrins makes impressive decisions

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Jim Gray, dude. Just stop.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

richardson is on fire

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

ohhhh myyyy

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jim Gray, dude. Just stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously.. you know you're [censored] up bad when Stern is telling you to send it back to Walton.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Warriors fans have so much pent up energy. This is awesome.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Will a warrior please miss a shot? Thank you.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Mavs are 1 for 19 in threes going back to last game

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Biedrins got screwed on that foul.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

Met Nash n Bell about an hour ago in LA on Beverly Dr.
nice guys.

Re: The Bobbo\'s Predictions
 

John Barry is one of the worst commentators I've ever listened to. It's painful. "Steven Jackson is not the facilitator of this team." His 5 assists beg to differ.

Bad, bad call on the Biedrins block. He's the best European on the floor right now.