Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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He probably views your hand as 44 or something he has beat, two pair or w/e

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Besides A8, what other possible 2-pair could op have here? And if villain views op's range as 44...why the hell would he shove AK?

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i mean, cmon. count the combos of a8, count the combos of 44... then ignore all that b/c people are going to push top
two.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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i know he has a set on flop.

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How the [censored] do you know that he has a set?

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Soul reading?

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Taking lessons from FGators, ldo.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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i mean, cmon. count the combos of a8, count the combos of 44... then ignore all that b/c people are going to push top
two.

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Ughh...w/e. I only brought up A8 to show how much of a stretch it is for villain to put op on a worse 2 pair after raising/calling the turn 3-bet.

Clearly you're never going to change your mind here...so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

ikes, villain has AK and shoves the river for like 300 big blinds. what's he expecting a call from ... A8? clearly there's some point at which you fold this (even getting 2.5:1). 500 big blinds? 1000 big blinds? hero has a set, but hero doesn't have the nuts.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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I'm sorry, but this is the most std line for AK/44 EVER.


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You have no idea what you are talking about. I have no clue how people play at 5/10+ or whatever it is you play and you just as surely have no clue how people play at .75/1.5.

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Maybe this is the key issue. Surely in the games Ike plays he sees players who are FAR more tricky/aggro. In my first 20k hands of 1/2, while i havent been 500+ big bets too often, i have yet to see a passivish 'tag' play < set this aggressively.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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Maybe this is the key issue. Surely in the games Ike plays he sees players who are FAR more tricky/aggro. In my first 20k hands of 1/2, while i havent been 500+ big bets too often, i have yet to see a passivish 'tag' play < set this aggressively.

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It's absolutely the issue, and I've been banging my head against the wall for the past hour trying to show that.

And you know what the really funny thing is? You see threads like this all the time in the HSNL forums. Same type of situation: 2nd/3rd nuts facing a shove really deep.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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He probably views your hand as 44 or something he has beat, two pair or w/e

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Besides A8, what other possible 2-pair could op have here? And if villain views op's range as 44...why the hell would he shove AK?

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i mean, cmon. count the combos of a8, count the combos of 44... then ignore all that b/c people are going to push top
two.

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but more specifically, does a 23/12/1.5 push top two here (i have yet to see this at 1/2, but obv you'd know better)? and even if he does do this w/ AK sometimes, it cant be near 100%. You said that we cant weight the ranges more strongly toward a set - not sure why not...

If we weight it more heavily toward a set, and also determine our price from the point when we get 3 bet on the turn, then we have to be right closer to 40% of the time, and are not even close.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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ikes, villain has AK and shoves the river for like 300 big blinds. what's he expecting a call from ... A8? clearly there's some point at which you fold this (even getting 2.5:1). 500 big blinds? 1000 big blinds? hero has a set, but hero doesn't have the nuts.

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who said that it was a good push?

2 combos AA
2 combos KK
2 combos 44
9 combos AK

We lose to AA, KK... beat 44. If he plays AK this way 20% of the time... its a call. i rest my case.

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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Maybe this is the key issue. Surely in the games Ike plays he sees players who are FAR more tricky/aggro. In my first 20k hands of 1/2, while i havent been 500+ big bets too often, i have yet to see a passivish 'tag' play < set this aggressively.

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It's absolutely the issue, and I've been banging my head against the wall for the past hour trying to show that.

And you know what the really funny thing is? You see threads like this all the time in the HSNL forums. Same type of situation: 2nd/3rd nuts facing a shove really deep.

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the funny thing is that i've played 8k hands at 1/2, 200bb buyin this week. lets move on past this sentiment, not argument.

oh and i was playing 1/2 in jan.... so w/e

Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
 

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ikes, villain has AK and shoves the river for like 300 big blinds. what's he expecting a call from ... A8? clearly there's some point at which you fold this (even getting 2.5:1). 500 big blinds? 1000 big blinds? hero has a set, but hero doesn't have the nuts.

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who said that it was a good push?

2 combos AA
2 combos KK
2 combos 44
9 combos AK

We lose to AA, KK... beat 44. If he plays AK this way 20% of the time... its a call. i rest my case.

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Yeah this is pretty convincing. Ultra sick, but it's the double truth. The only qualm I might have is if this guy is raising 44 pre, but I think most people are raising any pp pre this deep.