Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

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shouldn't stores have the right to make sure they aren't being stolen from? can't they make rules for all who choose to do business with them?

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Yes, but that doesn't imply that they can use physical force to back up their rules. If you don't follow their rules, the right remedy is for them to ask you to leave. The conditions under which they can forcibly detain you are a matter of state law, and generally require some kind of reasonable basis for suspecting that you stole something.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

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God damned Rosa Parks. She should have just sat at the back of the bus and not been an attention whore and a pain in the ass. A seat is a seat. What's the difference where it is.

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asdlkfasdlkfs


asldkfasdlfkjasdkllgkjasldfkjas


askldasfkl321409aslk12alkas


THINGS THAT WOULD GET ME BANNED IF I ACTUALLY SAID THEM.

u r a dum

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

An analogy for those who don't get it:

Suppose you come over to my house as a guest, and I accused you of taking something, and instead of calling the police or just ordering you out of my house, I lock you in and demand to be allowed to search you.

This is okay with you? This should be legal behavior from me?

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

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shouldn't stores have the right to make sure they aren't being stolen from? can't they make rules for all who choose to do business with them?

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Since this is not generally accepted behavior in the retail environment in this country, a policy like that would need to be clearly stated somewhere very visible.

Then it is up to the powers of capitalism. Would you choose to patronize a store that had a giant sign posted saying: "At Any Time, For Any Reason, One of Our Employees May Request a Search of Your Bags and Person. Your Decision to Shop Here is Your Consent to Comply With Our Policy"?

I wouldn't, and I don't think many people would.

edit: And if you decided not to shop there and comply with the policy, they can just kick you out. They can't hold you captive.

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k.. so... yes?


also, "LOL" at assuming people just "aren't getting it"

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shouldn't stores have the right to make sure they aren't being stolen from? can't they make rules for all who choose to do business with them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but that doesn't imply that they can use physical force to back up their rules. If you don't follow their rules, the right remedy is for them to ask you to leave. The conditions under which they can forcibly detain you are a matter of state law, and generally require some kind of reasonable basis for suspecting that you stole something.

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ok, but couldn't refund your money and take the items you purchased? after all they don't know if you're going to comply with their right to request to see your receipt until after you refuse.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

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My thoughts exactly. My only beef was that he dialed 911 to summon the police. 911 is for EMERGENCIES. If "Joe" had seriously injured him, or made him fear for his safety, then 911 would be appropriate.


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OT but,
they should have a universally known other number for lesser "emergencies"
It really sucks to call 911 and get put on hold for srs biz, which has happened to me. FWIW, I always just call 411 and then direct dial the police department for non emergencies.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

VR,

Nobody who is ripping the guy thinks that the store did is OK. Nobody thinks what the cop did is ok.

Do I think it's ok if the store asks to look in your bad when you leave, I'm not sure. Part of me says "Yes, that's fine, if you have a problem with that don't shop there, or better yet, don't steal". Another part of me says "Gosh, that's a system that is really asking for abuse and gets invasive towards our rights".

What I take issue with is that this is a kid who stole nothing. He's not going to get in trouble. He's making everybody's life more difficult to make a point. That's lame. Sometimes stuff is dumb and annoying, and I think the smartest, most mature thing you can do in those spots is get past it, shake your head, and move on.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

yeah.. it's like in live poker at the showdown when everyone's waiting for everyone else to turn over a winner and you're sitting there with 4 of a kind

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shouldn't stores have the right to make sure they aren't being stolen from? can't they make rules for all who choose to do business with them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but that doesn't imply that they can use physical force to back up their rules. If you don't follow their rules, the right remedy is for them to ask you to leave. The conditions under which they can forcibly detain you are a matter of state law, and generally require some kind of reasonable basis for suspecting that you stole something.

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ok, but couldn't refund your money and take the items you purchased? after all they don't know if you're going to comply with their right to request to see your receipt until after you refuse.

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Even if you accept the dubious proposition that a right of receipt inspection is part of the contract for the sale of whatever goods you bought, they probably don't have the right to rescind the whole contract (they should sue you for damages lol), and they certainly don't have the right to resort to self-help to straighten things out. And if they commit batteries and false arrests in the course of trying to rescind the contract (which the CC people did), they're fully responsible and fully in the wrong.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Dids,

You weren't actually one of the people I was referring to in my post.

I think it takes incredible gall for this guy to accept donations and he sounds like a complete jerk. On my list of things to worry about, he falls somewhere below plastic guitars and above ear wax. But I do worry about it when people say the solution is just to comply.

And, daryn, given the state of the country recently, I have no faith in the American public to "get it" anymore.

And I'm taking OOT entirely too seriously this morning. Too bad it's too early for tequila.

:P