Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

I just watched most of tomorrow's Director's cut, so if you want to know what Chan said about the aces and ten's folds I'll cover it in white as a spoiler. I will NEVER mention who wins before the show finishes airing on Sunday. I'm not an A-hole. Instead I will write about the dazzling Shana Hiatt.

Nothing in this post is necessary to read before you watch the director's cut, so feel free to skip it till later. Although, I don't see how it could take away any enjoyment from the show, if you were to read it. In fact I think you might end up eagerly awaiting the show even more after you read my post (although I tend to exaggerate, so bring it down about 50% and that will be about right) One word. Shana.



Minor Spoiler Alert:<font color="white"> Chan said the pocket 10's laydown to Hachem was just instinct. He thought he was beat.That's poker. If he was always perfect he would walk on water.

All this after saying moments before that his laydown of the pocket aces Vs. Seed was just instinct. He knew he was beat so he just let it go. 10 second interview. Nothing with Huck. Big waste of time! Next time, make the call. You got lucky, Mr. Instinct. You know Huck very well but his strength could have been just pocket kings. Johnny, Johnny, Johnny, a measly $3500 to call when you had $38K. Geez!

However, the way they filmed Shana walking around and sitting, displaying those gorgeous gammes, made the whole thing even better. Sure, I still enjoyed several of the comments made by the other players. It was all good enough...but the dissapointment of Chan's extremely basic and brief explanation of his pocket aces fold killed me. The pocket tens fold explanation was fine because he was at least funny.

It's my own fault for building it up in my mind, but anyway, I still think that was the worst fold I'll ever see Chan make. However, I also still think he's a superb player, and love watching him play.

More on Shana: From the moment she walks out the door I felt like I was watching them film scenes for a Shana Hiatt:DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball video game. She was still just wearing the same black dress, but some of those angles...I need a shower and I still haven't watched it all yet. Just know that she walks out the door right away to begin the show, and then shortly after that, the show opening title sequence begins, so watch from the very beginning.

Also, her mouth-watering melons seem even bigger now. It's probably just the camera angles again, but she still looks a bit pregnant to me. I think she's glowing. Her cheeks are a bit puffy, big melons, and that belly...I don't know, maybe the mic pack she's wearing is pushing the dress out, making her look a bit rounder, or maybe she's just now closer to a healthier normal woman. She's cute as a button and smoking hot.

Surprisingly, she made a few minor verbal mistakes during the regular inserts before the hands that they didn't correct. Stuff like: "As good as times as any."-when referring to Raymers K-Q hand. Minor stuff like that. The real Shana bloopers at the end of the show were shown in widescreen and I don't think she's ever sounded cuter. Much closer to her WPT blooper real. Great stuff, cutie-pie. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

So, that's the sneak preview. Shana's hot as hell and Johnny Chan folded aces like a girl, even though he guessed correctly. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Just kidding Johnny...please don't drown my in the river.</font>

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

Yes. It sure looks too close. When Phil said Chan might have K-10 or an ace after going all-in, it looked like Hachem heard him and folded. Phil's added a lot to the show though. Showing one card in the WSOP now means you must show them both, Chan's hotels without casino's, etc. Stuff I like to hear about when the players are silent. Especially hearing Phil tell us how great he is! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

I hope PAD continues to let Hellmuth, or even Laak or Esfandiari do some extra commentary during all heads-up matches!

The NBC Pad crew outdid themselves this week. Great week for PAD! Although, there's still room for improvement, like maybe hooking up a mic. to Shana's belly, so we can hear the baby kicking and screaming everytime Hellmuth speaks. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

why is phil hell in this episode?

Was he on several episodes this week? If so, I may watch/

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

I thought it was kind of funny it seemed like a couple of occasions when Phil was complementing himself it looked like Shana wandered off somewhere mentally. Gotta love Shana. I like her new hairstyle too. She is by far the best hostess out there.

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

Phil Hellmuth was on tonight and also talked to Shana near the end of the previous episode,for about 7 minutes (not counting commercials). He talked about the new Activision video game he's in (I posted about that in the video games section here).

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

Good news. I know it's weird that I watched half of the Director's cut-episode #6, before I actually watched episode #5 (but that's the stupid way I did it, because Canadian Tv stations mix things up quite often).

After my head stopped spinning from the confusion and my anger at Johnny subsided, I sat down to watch the entire Director's cut from beginning to end. Paying close attention to Chan's every syllable (very difficult thing to do).

I'm no longer mad at Johnny Chan for his brief explanations. English is not his first language so you have to pay close attention to every word or else by the time you walk down to the computer to post what you think he said, you'll get it wrong, just like I did.

I was close, but with Chan, it's best to listen to what he says several times and then write it down on paper first. You also have to visualize what happened in the hand and then play back what he says one more time.

At least that's what I had to do. He talks too fast; has difficulty pronouncing words; starts, stops, and then restarts sentences with new words and sometimes ideas, all in mere seconds. It confuses the hell out of me.

Very similar to the way my run-on sentences in most of my long posts probably confuse you (if you've ever read one in it's entirety-highly doubtful). However, I have no excuse, because English is my first language.

I still think he blew the aces fold on the river, but I was too impatient to give him 100% of my attention while listening to his explanation.

In my next post (to follow shortly) I'll white it out as a spoiler and will just write more accurately about what Chan said about the aces fold and maybe a bit more of Chan's comments about his pocket 10's fold (to Hachem), which almost, but not quite, prove my point that he should have called with his pocket aces hand instead of folding. Also, a slightly better, less stalkerish take on Shana's hotness in the episode. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

That last episode is why Phil pisses me off and raymer for the first time also. Raymer you lost GO home. Phil whenever theres a Camera you are there. Shana wanted to say it but couldnt Phil go home.

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone explain to me (a relative NL idiot) what Johnny Chan was thinking in his TT hand vs. Hachem? I know I just expertly defended his play with AA vs. Huck, but I'm not sure what he was going for against Hachem.

Hachem raises from middle position with KJ and Chan calls from the blind with TT.

The flop comes A72. Chan checks, Hachem bets about 3/4 of the pot, and Chan calls.
The turn is another 7. Checked around.
The river is an 8 (also putting 3 clubs out there). Chan checks, Hachem bets 3/4 of the pot again (8k into 11k), and Chan folds.

Why did Chan call the flop if he was just going to check-fold later on? When the turn checked through, why didn't he put out a little blocking bet on the river to prevent Joe from bluffing? If he was going to fold to any more action, why call the flop? Also, with the 3 clubs, how can he put Joe on a flush draw when it was backdoor clubs and Joe raised PF and bet the rainbow flop?

I'm not questioning this hand just because Chan mucked the winner; I'd be questioning his play even if Joe had AK and it was a good fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.I corrected the flop and switched the 6 out for the 2.

I meant to post this earlier. I wrote it before I saw the Director's cut and thought because there's one part I know I got wrong (because Joe said so, in the Director's cut)let's see if it's obvious to someone reading this. The problem is, everything I wrote may be lame. Anyway, go ahead and rip me a new one (I can take it. I think?).

Edit: When I just read it after it was posted, my glaring error stood out like a sore thumb, since you basically mentioned it in your post anyway. I'm still going to leave it alone, just it case it fools the odd sleepy person.

Also, there's no need to cover this post up as a spoiler, I assure you.

I also included a similar but more awkwardly worded theory of Chan's play within my other Director's post (I'll post it soon), that I'll cover up in white as a spoiler once again, because I wrote it after I saw the Director's cut and some of Hachem's commentary may have influenced me.

In episode #4, Chan lay down some winning hands. Maybe, he had trouble reading Hachem or just wasn't familiar enough with his betting tendencies. Although, Chan's folds still made sense, even if no false tells were picked up.

Laying down his pocket Jacks when a Queen hit on the flop was a tight fold perhaps (Chan had a nice stack), but if he stayed in the hand any longer he'd still have to fold to any big enough bet made later on (representing the Queen), or even get milked by small bets, if someone hits a bigger card (King or Ace) on the turn or river.

He also laid down the pocket 10's to Hachem's bluff bet on the river when the flush arrived. Hachem took his time and looked like he was trying to make a bet that Chan would call, even though Hachem had squadoosh. Nicely done, Joe, nicely done. Chan smelled a value bet perhaps?

Yeah, I don't think Chan was worried too much (if at all) about the flush hitting Hachem. I also don't think he put Hachem on an Ace because Chan called his bet on the flop. However, you got the flop wrong. It was actually: Ace[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I think Chan called because he was hoping Hachem had at best a 7 or 2 (maybe a smaller pocket pair than 10's, but if Hachem later gets the set, Chan could be toast). Chan didn't want to raise here because he didn't want to scare Hachem away, by making Hachem think he had the Ace or had a pocket pair. This way Hachem would feel safer about betting on the turn or river.

Unfortunately, when the 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] came on the turn, that was a bad card for Chan. As soon as Hachem checked, maybe Chan thought he might be slow-playing trip 7's.

Although, since many players would still bet the trip 7's there (even if it's just to vary their play, so they're tougher to read),that check also made it look like Hachem might have had the Ace all along, because now it looks like he's scared that Chan hit the trip 7's. However, fearing that Hachem could easily be ahead, Chan wisely checks.

It's river dance time: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] comes.

Chan still thinks Hachem probably has him beat and doesn't want to be check-raised and decides to check. Hachem makes that nice looking value bet and Chan says Syonora and folds

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

If you prefer to keep guessing about two of Chan's slightly cryptic folds and Hachem's powerful bluff technique which got Chan to fold his pocket 10's during week #11 of PAD, than don't read this post, because I've already seen tomorrow's Week #11 Director's cut (episode #6) (Thanks to the dummies in Canada). These Canadian broadcasts of PAD also have NO closed-captioning (I think the NBC Buffalo broadcasts do. They could have helped with Chan). Canadians also spell some words strangely: colour, favourite, cancelled. Anyway, here goes nothing.


Chan Spoiler Alert:


<font color="white"> Here are Johnny Chan's comments about why he folded his pocket aces (still not exactly word for word, but now much closer and easier to understand, I hope):

Chan: Instinct just tells me that. The way he checked it. He just have a big hand...after the flop, and I knew my hand was no good...so I just turned it loose. (Note: He never mentioned anything about Hachem).

At first I had to listen to how he incorrectly pronounced instinct, and then even though I heard the word check, he then threw in another sentence before he paused and then slipped in the words, "after the flop." Also, when he said "I just turned it loose", I incorrectly assumed turned it loose meant he physically folded his hand, so I thought he was talking about his fold on the river. I was wrong, because he meant that only in his own mind did he give up on his hand (turn it loose) once Huck checked on the flop. So, Chan was resigned to folding to any bet made by Seed. Unless Chan got an Ace on the turn or river, without another 6 or Jack coming with it.

So, to summarize what I think he meant: Chan could tell Seed had a big hand by the way he checked after the flop. So, in Chan's mind he was already beat and was ready to fold his aces. That's why when Seed bet on the river, Chan folded instantly. Chan had figured out he was already behind on the flop.

(Note: There were no comments made by any other players about this hand.)



Now here's Chan's account of his pocket 10's fold (to Hachem):

Chan: You know those kind of things...uhh... I just had that feeling he had me beat at that time, so I could be wrong, but you know you can't be 100%. If I'm perfect I'm walking on water. So, every now and then I made a mistake. That's poker.

That ones self-explanatory.

By the way, when Hachem was describing the hand, he incorrectly said a repeat deuce came on the turn (instead of the repeat 7, but he has the board texture correct anyway).

He also said that when Chan called his flop bet, he then put Chan on an Ace, or a pocket pair.

(Note: In my previous post, this is where I made the major logic mistake, thinking that just a raise made on the flop by Chan would show Chan's strength.)

Hachem also said that on the river, he wanted to make it look like he was trying to pretend he was bluffing and that Chan fell for it.


Here's my similar theory on the above pocket 10's fold by Chan:

Hachem raises from middle position Chan calls. (Yeah, standard stuff.)
Chan calls Hachem's big bet on the flop. He's letting Hachem know he's got something. Effectively saying," Watch it buddy, don't try to bet on the turn, or I'll raise you! Chan wants a chance at a free card(s). He feels like taking a swing for a set perhaps? He also is hoping Hachem has a 7. If he only has a 2, fine, then Chan knows he probably won't get anything if he bets the turn or river. Even with a 7, it could be very tough.

Also, if Hachem has a lower pocket pair than Chan's 10's, wouldn't a big bet by Chan on the turn or river, scare Hachem away if he doesn't have the Ace?

However, if Hachem has the Ace, with at least perhaps a 10 kicker, he'll probably call any big bet by Chan, and if Chan only makes a moderate size bet, Hachem would call him with any Ace. It just doesn't seem worth the risk. The biggest problem is, Hachem made a big raise with an Ace in the flop, so even if he doesn't have an Ace, how's Chan going to feel safe making a big bet into Hachem to scare him away?

Now it definitely looks like since Chan doesn't have an Ace, his pocket 10's don't look to be a big money maker, unless he can hold off Hachem and hope he can get one or two free cards and hit the 10 for his set (best if the 10 comes on the turn). If he doesn't get the set, he'll turn it loose (check and fold to most bets).

It seems like a weak strategy, but if it works, he might crush Hachem if Chan checks and Hachem then makes a big bet to try to push Chan out. Also, this is on tv, so it's not so terrible for Chan to mix up his play a bit, with the odd reckless call. It might make him tougher to read in later tournaments. Yes, I'm stretching, I know.

However, when the 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] came on the turn, that was a bad card for Chan. He then checked, since the trap possibility is looking shakier. If Hachem has a 2, Chan probably figures he's ahead, but he has to play weak and hope Hachem bets the bottom pair. Hachem checks.

Now the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] arrives on the river. Chan certainly wouldn't fear a backdoor flush with a rainbow flop (just like Joker said in his previous post). Chan checks and then Hachem makes a beautiful bet that looks like he wants Chan to call this fishy looking value bet. I thought this when I watched him make the bet, and obviously that's what he was trying to do since he said so on the Director's cut show.

What a mess, but I tried. I'd give myself a C+ for effort.


Shana Hiatt: When I watched the show again I noticed that for the first half of it, she didn't appear much hotter than previous shows, except that the camera only had her in it's sights, so my imagination did the rest. Great legs!

However, during the last half of the show the camera started to slowly pan around her and get a little closer, so it did slightly resemble that DOA Xtreme Volleyball video game. So, those parts were hotter.

As for her bloopers, I still laughed again and think they are easily the best ones so far, simply because she seems so happy and relaxed. Virtually stress free, cute as ever, and hot in that dress. The WPT Shana is on her way back. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]


Here's why I lost my mind about the Chan pocket Aces fold:

1) Since I myself can NEVER fold pocket aces to small bets on the river (especially with a good stack size), I don't like seeing it done successfully by someone else. So rather than admit that they have great instincts, I just say they got lucky or that they just made one of the worst folds I've ever seen. Chan only had to make a small $3500 call (he had a nice $38K stack) into a $7100 pot on the river with only one player still left to act.

2)When Chan said that instinct was his reason for folding the pocket 10's, and that every now and then he makes mistakes, I immediately thought about the pocket aces hand he talked about earlier, when he also said instinct was the reason he folded the aces.

2A)Even if Chan was 90% sure that Seed had him beat, even Chan said he's not perfect and makes some mistakes. Well then, for god's sake, if you might be wrong, then now's a great time to play the hand and ignore your instincts. You've got pocket aces!

3)Also, since Chan didn't mention Hachem at all in that pocket aces hand analysis, I doubt he was afraid of Hachem making a raise behind him. Plus, if Hachem also calls, then Chan's getting 3-1, instead of just 2-1.


Here's why I'm wrong about Chan's pocket aces fold (it hurts to even type it):

1)Johnny plays with Seed so often it was foolish of me to say it's probably the worst fold I'll ever see Chan make (in an earlier post). Not only was Chan's read correct, but later when I watched the actual hand again, Seed did look super confident when he made the check on the flop with his pocket 6's. Chan obviously recognized it immediately as a genuine tell, because he knows him so well!

2) Just like Jaime Gold often says in every interview on PAD, "You gotta go with your reads." Makes sense if you're good, and Chan certainly is. I guess I also gave Huck Seed too much credit for being able to hide any tells from Chan. As well, I thought Seed would know how to send out the odd fake tell to Chan. Maybe he can, but this time he screwed up and Chan believed it was a real sign of a monster hand.

2A) If you're good at reading players and you start ignoring your instinct, you'll just donk away your chips anytime you have a good hand (like pocket aces, etc.) even though you sense that you're beat. However, since I don't play against the same players often enough, my reads are only barely there, which is fine by me, because then I can always justify calling with my pocket aces. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

3) If Hachem calls, you're not getting 3-1, you're going to most likely lose and get nothing! Hachem would be a fool to bluff or bet anything but a monster with Seed betting and Chan calling. Someone's surely got a pretty decent hand. Especially with all those suspicious checks by both of them.


Once again, my apologies to Johnny Chan.[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Mr. Chan, I have to let you go.</font>

Re: NEW Poker After Dark airs June 11
 

Hellmuth's commentary to Shana kinda hurts.