Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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Isn't there some hotel in Vegas that has no casino attached that one could attach a Card Barn to? Like the Jockey Club (how big is that?)

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theoretically - yes. Problem is the real estate in that area is very expensive and probably not worth the margins a card barn would bring.

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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Without sufficient competition it doesn't matter what the market dictates. The poker rooms will rake whatever they can get away with so long as there isn't somebody across the street offering poker players a better deal.


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TT,

Earlier you pointed out the monopoly Foxwoods has. Yet they have never raised the rake. The room is crowded, games are good, If it wasn't profitable, I would imagine they wouldn't have expanded, though I guess the real value is in getting folks onto the premises.

Without competition, they could have raised the rake these last 5 or so years since Mohegan folded. Yes Mohegan is coming back into it, but if it is just a matter of whittling down the competition so rates can go up, why has foxwoods held the line?

Edit - The above quote wasn't from TT but from moneyline, but the question still stands about foxwood monopoly holding the line...

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I don't know the answer to that, except that we didn't start to see rake increases until Harrah's made their commitment earlier this year. Oddly Foxwoods does compete with AC, they might loose 10% or so of their player base if there is a revolt but then again that might not be a concern since the high rake is already creeping into AC as well. Also keep in mind Mohegan Sun is opening next year, it might be better to take a wait and see policy until they open.

Another change we should all get used to, soon enough I predict low limit NL games will switch to time charge instead of rake in Vegas. The writing is on the wall, NL tables don't rake as much as limit tables (which is part of the reason why rake is increasing).

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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I included PH on my list to shutdown 'cause it's not very large, parking sucks, and it's just a bit of an odd duck sitting in amongst Bally's/Bellagio/MGM in my list.

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That's why I like it - fewer locals. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
It may only have a dozen tables or so, but it could fit a lot more if they crammed them together. There's just no need right now.

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16 to be exact now which puts in on the larger end of the small rooms.

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Btw, the parking isn't that bad and most strip casino parking sucks. Also, MGM garage is on Koval, a full block behind that of PH (which is on Audrey). Hell, valet at Paris and walk in the front door. The mall isn't that long to walk through, 3 minutes maybe from car to poker room. Some people are insanely lazy though and want the poker room at the car door when they park.

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It's a half-mile plus. You have to go halfway round the miracle mile mall, and the through the casino. It's a lonnnnnng trek. Locals, go elsewhere. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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I included PH on my list to shutdown 'cause it's not very large, parking sucks, and it's just a bit of an odd duck sitting in amongst Bally's/Bellagio/MGM in my list.

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That's why I like it - fewer locals. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
It may only have a dozen tables or so, but it could fit a lot more if they crammed them together. There's just no need right now.

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16 to be exact now which puts in on the larger end of the small rooms.

link

Btw, the parking isn't that bad and most strip casino parking sucks. Also, MGM garage is on Koval, a full block behind that of PH (which is on Audrey). Hell, valet at Paris and walk in the front door. The mall isn't that long to walk through, 3 minutes maybe from car to poker room. Some people are insanely lazy though and want the poker room at the car door when they park.

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It's a half-mile plus. You have to go halfway round the miracle mile mall, and the through the casino. It's a lonnnnnng trek. Locals, go elsewhere. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Locals know that for the cheep price of a buck or two they can use the valet and walk right into the poker room without having to walk a mile.

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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Another change we should all get used to, soon enough I predict low limit NL games will switch to time charge instead of rake in Vegas. The writing is on the wall, NL tables don't rake as much as limit tables (which is part of the reason why rake is increasing).

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Most low limit tourists don't even know what rake is, why throw it in their face with a time charge? And I have no idea what you're talking about with NL raking less than limit. Assuming 10% 4 max, a 1/2NL game rakes more than a 2/4 game and less than a 3/6.

Hell, the Bellgaio rakes their 2/5 game a straight 10%, that's got to be the highest raked game in town.

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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And I have no idea what you're talking about with NL raking less than limit. Assuming 10% 4 max, a 1/2NL game rakes more than a 2/4 game and less than a 3/6.

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No it doesn't NL rake is nowhere close to limit rake. 1-2 NL might out rake a 1-5 stud game.

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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And I have no idea what you're talking about with NL raking less than limit. Assuming 10% 4 max, a 1/2NL game rakes more than a 2/4 game and less than a 3/6.

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No it doesn't NL rake is nowhere close to limit rake. 1-2 NL might out rake a 1-5 stud game.

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hourly rake = (rake per hand) * (hands per hour)

Which is more responsible for the NL rake overall to be lower? The rake per hand, or the hands per hour?

Also, VORP makes a good point that many players don't think twice about the rake, but would absolutely notice a time charge.

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

I wonder if any of the AC poker rooms will close down anytime soon. Some of them seem pretty desolate lately

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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That's why I like it - fewer locals. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
It may only have a dozen tables or so, but it could fit a lot more if they crammed them together. There's just no need right now.

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Locals know that for the cheep price of a buck or two they can use the valet and walk right into the poker room without having to walk a mile.

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PH has the worst valet on the Stip, long wait to drop off, long wait to pick up and ont he weekend you often have to grease them because you are not a hotel guest and they LOVE to limit valet to guests only.

FWIW I think Signature at MGM and the Stratoshere have two of the strongest valets. I am learning to love Caesars Colliseum valet too.

Re: LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17
 

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That's why I like it - fewer locals. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
It may only have a dozen tables or so, but it could fit a lot more if they crammed them together. There's just no need right now.

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Locals know that for the cheep price of a buck or two they can use the valet and walk right into the poker room without having to walk a mile.

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PH has the worst valet on the Stip, long wait to drop off, long wait to pick up and ont he weekend you often have to grease them because you are not a hotel guest and they LOVE to limit valet to guests only.

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I have never experienced a problem at Planet Hollywood, the valet is always very fast for me, I probably haven't waited longer than 5 minutes and they have always accepted my car, even on the weekends. Bellagio north valet usually takes longer.

Venetian is another story however, their vallet sucks.