Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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I am American. I also beleive in the whole Good Vs Evil thing, which some of you probably do not. I believe that there are certain people that are just evil people, and I dont believe in moral relativism like some of you may, pedophiles are pedophiles, there is something like an 80% recidivism rate, and if you do it once, honestly enough, that is enough for me to think you should be neutered. Your idea that society is more "progressive" by not dolling out harsh punishments is something I think is ludicrous.

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I think you are presuming a lot about my beliefs. I don't believe in moral relativism, i don't associate myself with the "progressive" movement (at least the mainstream connotation of that word), and lastly i am not liberal (again, in the mainstream sense). I am a classical liberal.

I believe people have rights, even criminals, kind of like Thomas Jefferson did. I also recognize that no matter how deplorable people are they are still people and that there is no justifiable reason to strip them of their personhood and treat them like vermin. Even if they don't recognize the personhood of others. while I have a lot of problems with the American constitution and government, i think the cruel and unusual punishment clause is spot on. universally.

and more to the heart of the issue, i believe there are a lot of different reasons that motivate pedophilia and similar practices, also these offenses vary greatly in severity. as such they don't warrant a uniform punishment for all offenses.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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I am American. I also beleive in the whole Good Vs Evil thing, which some of you probably do not. I believe that there are certain people that are just evil people, and I dont believe in moral relativism like some of you may, pedophiles are pedophiles, there is something like an 80% recidivism rate, and if you do it once, honestly enough, that is enough for me to think you should be neutered. Your idea that society is more "progressive" by not dolling out harsh punishments is something I think is ludicrous.

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I think you are presuming a lot about my beliefs. I don't believe in moral relativism, i don't associate myself with the "progressive" movement (at least the mainstream connotation of that word), and lastly i am not liberal (again, in the mainstream sense). I am a classical liberal.

I believe people have rights, even criminals, kind of like Thomas Jefferson did. I also recognize that no matter how deplorable people are they are still people and that there is no justifiable reason to strip them of their personhood and treat them like vermin. Even if they don't recognize the personhood of others. while I have a lot of problems with the American constitution and government, i think the cruel and unusual punishment clause is spot on. universally.

and more to the heart of the issue, i believe there are a lot of different reasons that motivate pedophilia and similar practices, also these offenses vary greatly in severity. as such they don't warrant a uniform punishment for all offenses.

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Not to mention that none of the people on TCAP are pedophiles, or at least not demonstrably so. Guids, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Do you want these guys, on this show, killed, or actual pedophiles, or only pedophiles who actually molest children?

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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Not to mention that none of the people on TCAP are pedophiles, or at least not demonstrably so. Guids, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Do you want these guys, on this show, killed, or actual pedophiles, or only pedophiles who actually molest children?

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I honestly suspect a fair amount of these guys are just 'losers' who really want to have sex, but the only one willing to actually have sex with them is some 16 year old on the internet.

meaning they are systematically searching for sex, not systematically searching for young people to have sex with.

that type of person is very different from a person that is sexually attracted to 9 year olds and has little interest in individuals who are sexually mature.

furthermore, a lot of individuals interested in having sex with girls in the 14-17 range aren't interested in non-consensual sex. this is also an important distinction.


I guess my point is that these guys aren't uniformly disturbed or uniformly dangerous.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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I am American. I also beleive in the whole Good Vs Evil thing, which some of you probably do not. I believe that there are certain people that are just evil people, and I dont believe in moral relativism like some of you may, pedophiles are pedophiles, there is something like an 80% recidivism rate, and if you do it once, honestly enough, that is enough for me to think you should be neutered. Your idea that society is more "progressive" by not dolling out harsh punishments is something I think is ludicrous.

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I think you are presuming a lot about my beliefs. I don't believe in moral relativism, i don't associate myself with the "progressive" movement (at least the mainstream connotation of that word), and lastly i am not liberal (again, in the mainstream sense). I am a classical liberal.

I believe people have rights, even criminals, kind of like Thomas Jefferson did. I also recognize that no matter how deplorable people are they are still people and that there is no justifiable reason to strip them of their personhood and treat them like vermin. Even if they don't recognize the personhood of others. while I have a lot of problems with the American constitution and government, i think the cruel and unusual punishment clause is spot on. universally.

and more to the heart of the issue, i believe there are a lot of different reasons that motivate pedophilia and similar practices, also these offenses vary greatly in severity. as such they don't warrant a uniform punishment for all offenses.

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I dont believe in uniform punishment either, I think when dealing with things of this nature there should be a lot of common sense involved. Obv, I dont think a 19 year old who is having sex with a 16 year old (or whatever the legal cutoffs are) should be handled the same as a 40 year old molesting a 13 year old. I dont believe castration is a deterrence, but I also dont beelive that there is any type of rehabilitation that can help, I think castration or something similar isnt cruel and unusual, I also think it is the closest we can come to rehabilitating people.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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I am American. I also beleive in the whole Good Vs Evil thing, which some of you probably do not. I believe that there are certain people that are just evil people, and I dont believe in moral relativism like some of you may, pedophiles are pedophiles, there is something like an 80% recidivism rate, and if you do it once, honestly enough, that is enough for me to think you should be neutered. Your idea that society is more "progressive" by not dolling out harsh punishments is something I think is ludicrous.

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I think you are presuming a lot about my beliefs. I don't believe in moral relativism, i don't associate myself with the "progressive" movement (at least the mainstream connotation of that word), and lastly i am not liberal (again, in the mainstream sense). I am a classical liberal.

I believe people have rights, even criminals, kind of like Thomas Jefferson did. I also recognize that no matter how deplorable people are they are still people and that there is no justifiable reason to strip them of their personhood and treat them like vermin. Even if they don't recognize the personhood of others. while I have a lot of problems with the American constitution and government, i think the cruel and unusual punishment clause is spot on. universally.

and more to the heart of the issue, i believe there are a lot of different reasons that motivate pedophilia and similar practices, also these offenses vary greatly in severity. as such they don't warrant a uniform punishment for all offenses.

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I dont believe in uniform punishment either, I think when dealing with things of this nature there should be a lot of common sense involved. Obv, I dont think a 19 year old who is having sex with a 16 year old (or whatever the legal cutoffs are) should be handled the same as a 40 year old molesting a 13 year old. I dont believe castration is a deterrence, but I also dont beelive that there is any type of rehabilitation that can help, I think castration or something similar isnt cruel and unusual, I also think it is the closest we can come to rehabilitating people.

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I think forcibly castrating them is an entirely different issue from offering castration in lieu of longer sentencing. I also think the majority of pedophiles (true pedophiles, not guys who bang 14 year olds) would jump at the chance to be castrated and try to live a normal life as best they could.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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I also think the majority of pedophiles (true pedophiles, not guys who bang 14 year olds) would jump at the chance to be castrated and try to live a normal life as best they could.

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for some reason i kind of doubt this. so much of identity is tied up in your sex organs. Personally, I can't imagine being castrated. i think most guys would say that that would fundamentally compromise who they are since it compromises their manhood.

EDIT: this my illustrate my point better. I would NEVER accept a frontal lobotomy under any circumstances, i would definitely welcome death before a frontal lobotomy. Because if i was lobotomized i would cease to be me. while, I don't think castration is quite so extreme, its very close imo. I think most guys would find both similarly unthinkable.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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I also think the majority of pedophiles (true pedophiles, not guys who bang 14 year olds) would jump at the chance to be castrated and try to live a normal life as best they could.

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for some reason i kind of doubt this. so much of identity is tied up in your sex organs. Personally, I can't imagine being castrated. i think most guys would say that that would fundamentally compromise who they are since it compromises their manhood.

EDIT: this my illustrate my point better. I would NEVER accept a frontal lobotomy under any circumstances, i would definitely welcome death before a frontal lobotomy. Because if i was lobotomized i would cease to be me. while, I don't think castration is quite so extreme, its very close imo. I think most guys would find both similarly unthinkable.

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Yeah, and most people really don't want to hurt small children either. Sexuality is a big part of who we are, but if your choice is castration or life in prison, I think many would take castration. Lobotomy is really not analogous in any meaningful way.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

-vhawk

i suppose i agree with your post other than the last sentence about lobotomies not being analogous. regardless though, i do not think castration should be an option for punishment. i believe it is cruel and that is also unusual. which is a point i seem to differ from you on.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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-vhawk

i suppose i agree with your post other than the last sentence about lobotomies not being analogous. regardless though, i do not think castration should be an option for punishment. i believe it is cruel and that is also unusual. which is a point i seem to differ from you on.

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I understand your position, I've heard the arguments from both sides, I just disagree. Forcibly castrating them would be cruel, but I don't see why simply offering it as an alternative punishment is. If its cruel, they needn't accept. It is obviously not without negative consequences, as this will signficantly and negatively effect the rest of their lives. That type of hormonal alteration is going to cause problems for them. But I think they should be able to determine, for themselves, if these problems are better than or worse than life in prison.

All of this is assuming that castration is actually an effective treatment and will prevent recidivism, which is by no means certain.

I suppose it is analogous, in some ways, to lobotomy, but lobotomy is far, far more severe. They are both sacrificing some part of who the criminal is, but the lobotomy is a far greater part. Either way, if someone really wanted to have a lobotomy performed on them to prevent them from committing future crimes, I suppose I would be ok with that as well. IMO, the entire purpose of the criminal justice system is to prevent people from being harmed, not to punish criminals. If its effective, and the criminals want to do it, have at it.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

omg this is the best one, sooo [censored] ing funny yo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi0fpduTNi0&NR=1


What a guy ahhaha [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]