Re: Pooh-Bah - Crushing Short Stacks
 

I'm seeing more of a specific tactic from some SSers I hadn't really noticed before. It goes like this:

SSer limps in middle. CO or button does your standard raise if not much action in front. There's 0 or 1 other limper. The blinds may or not come in, but the SSer pushes all in.

Most of the time the late raiser isn't gonna be in great shape for an all-in, right? And indeed they get a lot of folds and pick up a fair bit of dead money.

When it's gone to the AI, the SSer usually has a middle pair or AQ/AJ, not cards a SSer should raise in middle except maybe AQ (IMO), but this tactic looks a good one for SSers in middle position with decent but not typically great SS hands. (I'm assuming we're talking about a generic GOOD SSer here, not the more common terrible one).


Anyone else noticed this one? I'm certainly watching SSers who do this closely, to get a clear line on the ranges they pull this stuff on, so I can retake the initiative.

Re: Pooh-Bah - Crushing Short Stacks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else noticed this one? I'm certainly watching SSers who do this closely, to get a clear line on the ranges they pull this stuff on, so I can retake the initiative.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kinda surprised you're surprised by this. I see this somewhat regularly. Usually when there's a fair bit of dead money from players calling a raise and the raiser is in LP (therefore having a wide range). It's a squeeze, but because villain is short stacking, it becomes a push. Most often this is a mid or small PP - A hand they'd overlimp with, rather than raise, but which they think is beating or coin flipping the raiser's range. And they assume they have fold equity a lot of the time because the raiser is unlikely to call with JTs.

Here's an example from this week-end.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $33
UTG+1: $30
MP: $95.40
Hero (CO): $178.75
BTN: $126.40
SB: $90
BB: $100

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls $5, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to $30 and is All-In</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $54</font>, UTG calls $27 and is All-In

Flop: ($97.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($97.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($97.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $97.50 Pot ($3 Rake)
UTG showed J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sevens) and LOST (-$33 NET)
UTG+1 showed 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sevens) and LOST (-$30 NET)
Hero showed A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sevens) and WON $94.50 (+$61.50 NET)

Re: Pooh-Bah - Crushing Short Stacks
 

Not just the medium to small pockets in $25NL and under. I've been slumming since August and have been amazed at the pushes in this exact situation.

FTR, I think I'm ahead when holding 55+ [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Pooh-Bah - Crushing Short Stacks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else noticed this one? I'm certainly watching SSers who do this closely, to get a clear line on the ranges they pull this stuff on, so I can retake the initiative.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kinda surprised you're surprised by this. I see this somewhat regularly. Usually when there's a fair bit of dead money from players calling a raise and the raiser is in LP (therefore having a wide range). It's a squeeze, but because villain is short stacking, it becomes a push. Most often this is a mid or small PP - A hand they'd overlimp with, rather than raise, but which they think is beating or coin flipping the raiser's range. And they assume they have fold equity a lot of the time because the raiser is unlikely to call with JTs.

Here's an example from this week-end.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $33
UTG+1: $30
MP: $95.40
Hero (CO): $178.75
BTN: $126.40
SB: $90
BB: $100

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls $5, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to $30 and is All-In</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $54</font>, UTG calls $27 and is All-In

Flop: ($97.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($97.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($97.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $97.50 Pot ($3 Rake)
UTG showed J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sevens) and LOST (-$33 NET)
UTG+1 showed 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sevens) and LOST (-$30 NET)
Hero showed A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Sevens) and WON $94.50 (+$61.50 NET)

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He said good shortstackers. Neither of these guys is good. I think thats the difference that diebitter was pointing out. This is a pretty terrible play by both of the shortstackers involved.

Re: Pooh-Bah - Crushing Short Stacks
 

What would really help people play better against shortstacks is getting someone who datamines to post the stats and showdown hands of good shortstackers to get a better idea of their opening/shoving ranges.