Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

a call is a lot better on 974k9 than 975k9 fwiw(w/ soots the same).

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aba knows you have to fold 2/3 of the time to make a bluff here profitable. he also obviously knows you have a K. you're a thinking player who is capable of making a big call down here. i dont think he would ever think he could get you to fold more than 2/3 of the time here...

i'd lay it down

[/ QUOTE ]
best argument for laying it down so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks bro!!!

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

lol@ people randomly throwing out numbers/frequencies

I basically agree with blds post though.


Goodplayerguy: cbetting flop is bad cause we get [censored] on far too often and cant 3bet all in
Goodplayerguy: but that also makes cbetting turn bad because of aba's tight rangein sb
Jeff: disagree completely he absolutely has to c bet flop
Jeff: because abas range doesnt even connect with that flop often
Goodplayerguy: i think aba tries to [censored] a lot though
Jeff: and the ev of checking is very low
Jeff: i dont
Jeff: he may tend to c/r this flop frequently
Jeff: but in general i think the ev of betting is so much higher than checking
Jeff: and because we cant even v bet turns with kings, like u said
Jeff: i think we need to just bet bet bet
Goodplayerguy: good point
Jeff: hands that dont improve
Jeff: now
Jeff: if this was vs patrik or someone
Jeff: who frequently has 89s or w/e
Jeff: its way tougher
Goodplayerguy: i guess i we are going to check
Goodplayerguy: we must must must be bluff raising a donk bet by aba
Goodplayerguy: if we miss
Jeff: which seems retarded
Goodplayerguy: yes it does
Jeff: like, that cant be good ever, giving up/playing to improve and go to showdown has to be better anyway
Goodplayerguy: so youre right
Goodplayerguy: gotta cbet
Goodplayerguy: and if he [censored] who cares we have a hand here enough so that its ok
Goodplayerguy: that he [censored] occasionally
Jeff: hes oop
Jeff: hes only calling oop
Jeff: because he can profitably play a certain range oop
Jeff: and has to call some of the time cuz he would be forced to play fewer hands if he was only 3 betting
Goodplayerguy: yeah
Jeff: so im not gonna freeze up there usually
Jeff: idk result

other convo:

Aaron: (1) might be wrong
but like, in this specific situation
maybe the long run doesnt matter
maybe u shouldnt even worry
about how good whitelime is
and how u need to be unexploitable
maybe the best way to beat whitelime when deciding whether or not to overbet here
is the same way u beat some random idiot

given all the reads u have
at the moment
might the most profitable way
be either

a) always bluff 100% this time or b) bluff close to 0% of your hands
depending on whether aba thinks whitelime will call or fold RIGHT NOW
and further
here is the interesting part
what if
all we have to do
is choose between a) or b)
maybe some or all top players
are just really [censored] good at choosing between a) and b)
THOUGHTS?


Jeffrey: idk im scared

Aaron: i think it's a terrifying idea


Not that this isn't a great thread, but this wouldn't have happened if whitelime just bet the damn flop

-Jeff

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

results? I think a railbird posted them and then they were taken down?

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

are you trying to imply that your tendencies when playing HU and 3 handed vs regulars are the same as when playing 6 handed vs someone taking a shot?

i'm not sure that posting 2 hands out of the thousands that you play is going to convice us that you are overbet bluffing in this spot frequently given the said game dynamics.

however i'd be very interested to hear the results in this hand...and also would be very interested in hearing if i am making faulty assumptions.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aba knows you have to fold 2/3 of the time to make a bluff here profitable. he also obviously knows you have a K. you're a thinking player who is capable of making a big call down here. i dont think he would ever think he could get you to fold more than 2/3 of the time here...

i'd lay it down

[/ QUOTE ]
best argument for laying it down so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks bro!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think this is a pretty strong argument. I don't think brian would try to overbet bluff here where (as this thread can attest) a lot of very good players will have the urge to call.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aba knows you have to fold 2/3 of the time to make a bluff here profitable. he also obviously knows you have a K. you're a thinking player who is capable of making a big call down here. i dont think he would ever think he could get you to fold more than 2/3 of the time here...

i'd lay it down

[/ QUOTE ]
best argument for laying it down so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks bro!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think this is a pretty strong argument. I don't think brian would try to overbet bluff here where (as this thread can attest) a lot of very good players will have the urge to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I'm not a respected HSNL poster, but it seems like this is not the case.

If Brian really does routinely make this play both for value and as a bluff he seems to be accomplishing two important goals of someone who is comfortably bankrolled for the big game.

1) he is keeping the pressure on his opponent by forcing them to make big decisions.

2) by overbetting he is effectively raising the stakes of the game.

I don't think Brian is trying to specifically optimize against specific opponents - trying to induce a call here and and fold against someone else using the same betting pattern based on a read. rather it seems likely that he is attempting in all cases to maintain initiative, force opponents to call too frequently and increase the stakes in a game where he feels he has an edge.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
a call is a lot better on 974k9 than 975k9 fwiw(w/ soots the same).

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this because you think aba can turn 56/68 into a bluff? Or he can take this line with the nuts? Or both? If you don't want to post because you are giving up too much information, I will respect your decision.

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

for those of you who don't understand what aba's post is about, he's basically saying that he is willing to double check-raise in spots where the other player's hand is fairly face-up and a one pair-ish type hand

edited to add also that he will follow up w/ a strong river bluff...

Re: 200/400 hand vs. sbrubgy 6 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a call is a lot better on 974k9 than 975k9 fwiw(w/ soots the same).

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this because you think aba can turn 56/68 into a bluff? Or he can take this line with the nuts? Or both? If you don't want to post because you are giving up too much information, I will respect your decision.

[/ QUOTE ]


I was curious about this as well. As far as I could see...I assumed aba's OOP range is equally as dangerous/harmless on either one of those flops.