Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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Mondo,

Do you really not understand why your specific subjective opinions on Rice/Raines are taken with a grain of salt here?

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I understand perfectly well that my subjective opinion on Rice/Raines is taken with a grain of salt. Do you really not understand why I don't care? Your opinion is every bit as meaningless to me as mine is to you, and your innate ability to extend my words to mean things I did not say or mean is only exceeded by your incessant desire to try to somehow "get one over" on me. My opinion is not meant to impress you, or anyone else. However, on 2+2, where we are invited to provide our opionion, we often give it, irrespective of the lack of meaning of said opinion.

The reality is, neither your opinion nor mine, of who should be in the HOF, carries any significance to anyone whatsoever. Unless you're a voting member of the BBWAA, and I'm about 10000% sure you're not, your opinion about my vote is as insignificant as what I ate for lunch today.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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Mondo,
If Raines batted ninth would that help or hurt his candidacy?
If Raines has an allstar team behind him had a dozen 100 run seasons would that help or hurt his candidacy?
If Raines played in Coors Field and had a dozen 100 run seasons would that help or hurt his candidacy?

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In all three cases, I think it would help. Far less in the case of the latter, though a dozen 100 run seasons post-humidor would have to help somewhat. Raines actually did play on some pretty good Expos teams, fwiw.

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HOF candidacy should be based on your accomplishments throughout your career. One more league average season isn't a big deal, but it make his whole career more impressive albeit slightly.

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Yes, I agree, but slightly, to me, wasn't enough to put him over the top.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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Brady Anderson. That's it.

lol, wtf is this a-hole doing on the ballot?

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Guys automatically get on the ballot if they play enough seasons. IIRC Gary Discarnia was on the ballot year.

BTW I can't wait for Cubs fans to post about Andre Dawson or Yankees Fans to post for Donnie Baseball.

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This is not true. I forget how it works exactly, but there is some sort of nomination process. Basically, expect to see Anderson get a couple of votes.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

Let's try this again. Here's the quote again:

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If the BBWAA gave you a ballot, and you voted for players based on who you thought the other voters would be voting for, you'd be a goddamn moron.

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Let's extrapolate that. I said, "If the BBWAA gave you a ballot, and you voted for players you thought the other voters would be voting for AND NOT PLAYERS THAT YOU PERSONALLY THOUGHT SHOULD BE IN THE HALL OF FAME, you would be a moron."

I stand by that statement. If you aren't creating your ballot based solely on your own opinion, you are a moron.

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Okay, and I stand by my statement that Gossage and Rice are the only people on this year's ballot that I think merit inclusion in the HOF.

I suggested (and still do) that Raines falls just short, imo, so he doesn't get my vote. He probably stands a reasonable chance of getting in, but I'm pretty much 100% positive he's not getting in on the first ballot.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

mondo,

you make a lot of mention about rice playing in a pitcher's era but i don't think you've mentioned once that he played at fenway his whole career.

also saying that raines always came short of rickey henderson is kind of silly, EVERYBODY came up short to rickey henderson.

fwiw, i think raines was better than rice objectively and subjectively. partly because i love watching guys runs. also dude stuck around long enough to play ball with son! what's not to love?!

another fwiw, that doesn't necessarily mean i don't think rice should get in, but simply if rice gets in, there's no reason why raines shouldn't get in.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

Todd Stottlemyre???

He was the 4th best pitcher on the Blue Jays.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

over a few seasons, i'd say jim rice was arguably better than anyone else (stats might not bear it out, but low scoring era and amazing era for baseball)

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

also rob neyer (my favorite baseball writer) has been arguing for years that burt blyleven is the best player to not make the hall of fame and its a travesty he's not in. i agree with him.

my ballot would be
blyleven
gossage
raines
mcgwire

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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you make a lot of mention about rice playing in a pitcher's era but i don't think you've mentioned once that he played at fenway his whole career.


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I think that's the main argument. He played his whole career in Fenway so he should be in.

Re: My Hall of Fame Ballot
 

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The reality is, neither your opinion nor mine, of who should be in the HOF, carries any significance to anyone whatsoever. Unless you're a voting member of the BBWAA, and I'm about 10000% sure you're not, your opinion about my vote is as insignificant as what I ate for lunch today.

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WTF are you trying to say? Opinions in 99% of 2p2 threads don't mean a damn thing in the grand scheme of things. So what? You posted your opinion that you would vote Rice into the HOF, but would not vote Tim Raines or Burt Blyleven. Other people have asked you why, and when you have presented subpar arguments, provided very clear data showing that Raines was a better player throughout his career.

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Okay, and I stand by my statement that Gossage and Rice are the only people on this year's ballot that I think merit inclusion in the HOF.

I suggested (and still do) that Raines falls just short, imo, so he doesn't get my vote. He probably stands a reasonable chance of getting in, but I'm pretty much 100% positive he's not getting in on the first ballot.

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You keep coming back to this, but it is completely irrelevant to this thread. We aren't talking about who the BBWAA will vote in. We're talking about who we would vote in personally. So I don't understand why you keep coming back to this point.

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... and your innate ability to extend my words to mean things I did not say or mean is only exceeded by your incessant desire to try to somehow "get one over" on me.

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Where have I done this? Where I have twisted your words into something else? How have I been trying to "get one over" on you? All I've done is point out how flawed your method of argument has been.

I really wish you would state why you continually avoided and overlooked the very convincing evidence in the Raines/Rice EQA graph. This is very clear proof that not only was Raines a better player during their peak years, but that he was better through the life of both of their careers.