Re: more on shufflers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gee, I feel like shufflemaster slipped an ad into this thread.

Regular shufflers are fine. "Game security" is quoted as the reason for machines that read rank and suit of each card. And I got some beachfront property in new mexico for ya. Seems to me this technology would more likely just allow casinos to reshuffle a positive count shoe (although I believe some already have technology for this anyway).

Needless to say, I'm against the use of machines to track counts and keep them negative for the customers.

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Some similar activities are prohibited by gaming regulation, at least in Nevada. For example, video machines that represent card games must play according to the same odds as if the game were played with actual cards. I'm sure casinos would love to be able to offer video poker that doesn't use a 52-card deck, but it's prohibited by law.

Similarly, I think that regulators would be likely to prohibit the use of machines to identify and reshuffle shoes that are player-favorable.

Re: more on shufflers
 

While it is my understanding that this would not be allowed, the shoes would be allowed for the purpose of tracking the count to identify counters.

This was sort of what happened with another device (it was called something like MindTrack, I can't remember know). A casino was fined heavily for using it to determine when to shuffle, but they were allowed to use it to identify counters.

This sort of device really has not much application in a poker room.

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker doesn't make money. Fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds.

Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No.

But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal?

I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you.

It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense...

Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker rooms are only there to bring people into the casino. They don't make $$$. I would guess that poker rooms make less than 0.02% of casino's profit.

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

Al,


Fact.

I spoke with the Director of Table Games at one of the Harrah's properties... She laughed and said it was less than a half %%...

The $$$ they could me making using that square footage for slots is huge... But again poker rooms are just to bring people in.

Try talking to an executive in the casino business or someone in the finance department. ok.

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

Well, that's cool. In one post, the estimated profit is "less than 0.02%". In the next post, the same poster claims that a Harrah's employee puts the number at less than 0.5%. For those of you counting cards at home, one of these numbers is 25 times larger than the other.

Oh, and should I have noticed that both estimates are positive, therefore giving the lie to the claim that poker rooms "don't make money"?

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

Hey there journeyman boy, you should learn quick that when you get everything wrong in your posts, you tend to get ripped to shreds on the forums.

I never made any claims to what the percentages of a casino's yearly profit would be, nor did I intend to make any point of that sort. Whatever the number is, it won't be large and certainly won't have any relevance to this discussion.

Also, I have more than one friend in the positions you claim to have gotten such exclusive information from. Casino manager, yup. Directors of specialty gaming, yup. Poker room managers, yup. Another casino manager, yup. Certain others I won't mention titles for as well. And I'm not going to name-drop anyone, because that drags someone into this discussion that didn't ask to be brought in.

I also made no claims of competing with slots on a square foot basis. I specifically stated that this particular number was quite irrelevant in an area with absolutely no shortage of space. Seems your source also fails to comprehend this point, and more than likely all the others too.

If you have a legitimate point you want to make, and you back it up with more than just hot air, your input is welcome, always, even if you disagree with me.

Many have disagreed with me, even in this very discussion, and done so tastefully and with class. This has been an excellent thread and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

Al

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

Cliff notes:

Poker rooms make money, but not as much as other games.

Shufflers are a good thing.

Casino managers don't really value poker and poker players much, and there is disagreement as to whether this is reasonable or not.

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

Milo,

<star color="gold"/>

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

Supplemental cliffs notes:

"Facts" is a term of art.

"Bull-pucky" and "bull-crapola" is in good taste and has class.

Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms?
MGM? No.
Venetian? No.
Caesars? No.
Guess why.

It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP and issue under debate are about making money or not, not about making the most money or not.