2 overbet all ins

iceman5 · #1 02-23-2006, 09:30 PM

#1) I just got stacked with KK vs a set. Very next hand but different villain. I just reloaded to $400. This is $2/$4 NL

I raise to $16 with QQ. Villian pushes all and has me covered. Call or fold?

#2) UTG limps. Hes a fish. Im UTG+1 and raise to $20 with AKs. It folds back to him and he min reraises to $36. I call.

Pot $80. Flop T73 with 2 clubs. None of my suit. he checks and I check.

Pot $80. Turn A. No flush. He open pushes. Its about $375 to me. Call or fold? The guy is a major fish. This is the 1st day Ive played with him, but he misplays everything. However, he hasnt pulled this move yet.

Taikunin · #2 02-23-2006, 09:55 PM

1.Call
2.Fold

iceman5 · #3 02-23-2006, 10:16 PM

I realize that these are almost guesses as to what they have, but are you flipping a coin? Or do you have any reasoning behind your answers?

Taikunin · #4 02-23-2006, 10:25 PM

Feel. Not much else to go on here.

Edit: On second thought I fold both. Maybe the villain thinks you're tilting and you will pay off with his overbet. Then again both of these hands are really confusing/awkward.

Triumph36 · #5 02-23-2006, 10:28 PM

Both bets are completely irrational. Some Villains, the ones who don't think very well, want you to fold with this kind of overbet - they think you can't handle it, and they want this pot. Some Villains who think well overbet this way because they know about the first type of Villain I described and want you to get confused, and thereby calling with a much weaker hand.

The problem is, with no reads on the particular Villains, you can't accurately judge. Some guys move all in with any pocket pair because they've seen too much WPT. I think in Hand 1 you've got to call because queens are too good be laying down to an unknown in this spot. Some guys will do this with AA but I haven't found many who do.

I would call 1 for sure and I would probably call 2 and hate myself for it. To me, in Hand 2 you're splitting with another AK or against an AQ. I have no idea whether this bet is meant for you to call or fold.

skinnyc · #6 02-23-2006, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Feel. Not much else to go on here.

Edit: On second thought I fold both. Maybe the villain thinks you're tilting and you will pay off with his overbet. Then again both of these hands are really confusing/awkward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, very strange bets. All you can do is go with your gut. The first one I probably fold though, because you have no read and you can find a better spot to get your money in. You rarely want to call all in on a guess in my opinion.

radioheadfan · #7 02-24-2006, 10:33 AM

First hand is an insta-fold. You'll be shown AKs/KK/AA a very large fraction of the time. You do not fare well against that range. Very few people make this play with JJ on down.

The 2nd one is also a fold. You don't know what his overbets mean, so wait til you figure out, he could be playing TTT this way thinking you'll pay with any ace. Hard to get into the mind of a complete fish.

iceman5 · #8 02-24-2006, 04:50 PM

1) I called like a complete idiot. He had KK. I think he pushed in because he thought I was tilting after getting my KK busted by a set the previous hand, but I wasnt. I did tilt after making that horrific call, so I left.

2) I called this one as well. He had AQ. I actually thought he had KK. Like I said, he is a fish. The one hand I was 99% sure he didnt have was AA.

SilverLining1 · #9 02-24-2006, 05:01 PM

Iceman,

1. C'mon - 6 handed or 10 handed? What is your position on the first hand? What is his position?

2. I hate to say this, but it looks like he has AA here and he has telegraphed his hand by pulling that re-raise nonsense on the flop. There is an off chance that he has decided to be creative here and represent aces by betting this way, though this would be one of the most retarted hold 'em plays in the history of Western Civilization if he did. I think he has AA.