Limit 5cd-Playing pairs in the blinds

[Frond]

Was wondering of some of the best ways to play pairs T's through Q's in the blinds. Let's say that I am in the SB with a pair of J's, there are 3 limpers before me, should I raise T's, J's or Q's, or call? I assume that if it is limped to you with Q's or better that it is an auto-raise? What about the BB? I have found a lot of people like to limp with T's & J's out of position so not sure what the best course of action is in the blinds with these pairs. With Q-A's it is much easier if there has been no raise but with smaller pairs it gets trickier. Lately I have been mixing it up a lot for my blind play.

Murakawa, perhaps you can tackle this post. Thanks

[Murakawa]

Oh... this is a complicated question. In the BB you should usually call raise with a pair of jacks or better no matter where the raise is... okay... so I don't always do this from an UTG raise but often there is another player in the pot who cold called and then I have odds to draw to three of a kind. I also have implied odds if I make trips... though there is also reverse implied odds if you both improve or if you're drawing dead... but for the most part call in the big blind with a pair of jacks or better.

If the raise is from button you can call with 10's, and if it's from the SB you can call with a pair of sixes or better against an unknown player.... though I usually only call with 8's because most players won't raise with these hands. However, many players may bluff with draws or aces with a kicker and so your call isn't wrong. You can even call with AK in the BB sometimes if you are against a LAGy player.

Dealing SB you can open raise with 66 or even AJ unless they catch on... thought often AK is a good raise, and they will put you on a pair of kings or aces if you hit, and you will get another bet post draw if they have queens or something...

Even sometimes they'll call with a weaker ace.

If the raise is from he SB I often reraise with a pair of aces against a player who knows how to raise in position. This is when in the BB.

As for people who limp in out of position, I hate it. Don't worry about just limping here... they're giving you very good odds to outdraw them if you're not already ahead... half a bet is worth a call with jacks for sure! Sometime syou can raise with Aces or Kings in this situation, but you have one player left to act, someone might be plannig on limp raising, and everyone will probably just call. This is still a value bet though, if you think the other players are limping out of position. If they limp with something like Queens in early position frequently and nothing else ,you can fold. I know two players who ALWAYS limp with jacks and aces in any position, so I know to fold my tens. If you're not sure if they're limping with these hands, then you can call unless you think that you can isolate one other player. If a player limps in EP then folds then you can raise sometimes to isolate a player with Aces, and it is better to do so. If not, then you're not really value betting your Jacks or whatever you're probably not ahead, and the value from hand comes when someone calls you down when you make your jacks. If you don't improve and someone bets post draw, so what? You're making money from their incorrect play in the long run.

Also, I've found that people will make that early position lamp frequently so if you see it a few times you'll know exactly what hand to put them on. if you think you're ahead raise, and if not then fold or limp if you're not sure. Also, if three people limp with worse hands than you and you raise, you'll often be outdrawn, but you're still betting for value. Notes are invaluable in this situation, but believe me, you play with a player long enough and you'll have a good read on them.

I hope this helps.

Also, there are many better draw players in these forums that I, but they're busy making money, often at triple draw, while I hang around on these forums. But thanks.

[Frond]

Thanks M. I have been having pretty good success as of late. Pretty much playing ABC style and throwing in an occassional unpredictable move, but mostly just value betting hands. The blind play is def. a spot you can lose a lot of bets if you aren't careful. I have been folding a lot of SBs lately to raises when I am holding some better pairs like T's and J's when I do have a read on the raiser etc. and have saved a few bets here and there.

Don't you just love it when you have a pat hand in LP with a bunch of limpers who all call your raise, you stand pat, bet and still get a caller or 2? Unreal at times. I posed the question of breaking up a pat hand like a boat or even not raising them Pre Draw but you still will get paid off by someone here and there so it is better to get a raise in there PRe D.

[polishpride]

Sorry for offtop: 5 card draw limit only Poker Stars?

[Frond]

Yea, stars only as far as I know. There may be some others but havne't heard a whole lot about them.

[mindflayer]

The rest kicked the US players.

[Murakawa]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for offtop: 5 card draw limit only Poker Stars?

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars has PL as well. Planetpoker is good for US but the games are dead. Poker.com is bringing draw in January, and prima if you can get an account has it but the games are also dead.

[Big Limpin]

before reading the other responses, ill jsut say real quick:

I cant see popping anything less than KK. The q's j's t's, i'm pretty much just happy to have something greater than 1% equity on my freeplay, and take a shot for trips. I pretty much check/fold all these post-

The thing is, you have to know you have a significant edge to raise it OOP. Like lets say you have QQ and theres a limper you figure has either 99, TT, or JJ...or else KK or AA. And its only the two of you in the pot. So 60% of the time, you have the best of it, 40% you are a dog. Would you raise here? I'm unscientifically saying "no" here. The value you gain pushing that marginal edge will be somewhat/fully/completely lost to having to play post- acting first. Right? Like if your QQ doesnt improve, and you check, and he bets, then what? Hes likely more inclined to bet his strong ger hands (AA, 2pr) than the JJ unimproved, but you are basically guessing where he is.

That was a horribly worded paragraph. But im in a rush!

So i think a good gameplan for the BB with a facepair is to pop it only if you are pretty much SURE you are ahead. Like if all the limpers have notes saying "limps shorts and draws", then for sure pop it with AA/KK...but remember that these guys get dealt big hands too, and raising with JJ to get shown KK is a major coup, considering that you already had a free draw on the table.

Summary: decent hand in BB...be happy you got more than a longshot, take your free shot. Raise if you know you will gain enough equity to offset you having to play OOP. AA probably has this. JJ surely does not.

*Me personally, i hardly ever pop KK here, although that may be excessive. I do like the extra action when i make kings up, though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]